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2020-09-28 08:12:46 → mirrorbird joins (~psutcliff@h85-8-41-6.cust.a3fiber.se)
2020-09-28 08:13:10 <Guest_68> I just watched a video about haskell and liked those "type" stuff written before functions. It was interesting that these stuff are just comments in other programming languages, but in haskell they aare something you can work with.
2020-09-28 08:16:53 × zaquest quits (~notzaques@5.128.210.178) (Quit: Leaving)
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2020-09-28 08:18:05 → zaquest joins (~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2020-09-28 08:18:19 <Ferdiran1> Guest_68: your sample of programming languages might be somewhat biased
2020-09-28 08:18:39 <c_wraith> Other languages have useful types too. But Haskell definitely is on the powerful side, if not at the far end.
2020-09-28 08:19:21 × thir quits (~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:20:39 <Guest_68> my sample is empty! I've been learning programming with python and a little java just for 3 months. I just feelt like Haskell is "clean" and elegant and decided to learn it.
2020-09-28 08:21:10 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:23:19 <Guest_68> BTW, how can i have a username for myself here?
2020-09-28 08:23:35 → chaosmasttter joins (~chaosmast@p200300c4a70aba01051f9f9accc8fe29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-28 08:25:12 <perdent> Does anyone here have MAGMA Algebraic installed on their PC? As I need to run a script I wrote and because the complexity is more than 120s (web version only allows that). I just need to see what the outputs are for my problem, it would be much appreciated if someone could help me out?
2020-09-28 08:25:16 <yushyin> Guest_68: /nick <username>
2020-09-28 08:25:24 <yushyin> Guest_68: see also https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration
2020-09-28 08:26:41 <Guest_68> yushyin thanks
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2020-09-28 08:28:40 → Ocelot joins (a010718c@160.16.113.140)
2020-09-28 08:29:47 Ocelot is now known as Uzuki
2020-09-28 08:30:06 → cpressey joins (~cpressey@79-72-202-6.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2020-09-28 08:30:14 × macrover quits (~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:30:51 × Sigyn quits (sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn) (Quit: i've seen things you people wouldn't believe. spam bots on fire off the shoulder of sigyn. i watched k-line beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. all these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. time to /die)
2020-09-28 08:31:12 <johnnyboy[m]> Does Haskell satisfy some confluence (Church-Rosser) property?
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2020-09-28 08:31:25 ChanServ sets mode +o Sigyn
2020-09-28 08:31:30 <johnnyboy[m]> I.e. is it true that terminating evaluations always yield the same result for the same expression?
2020-09-28 08:32:01 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:34:21 → esp32_prog joins (yoann@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/esp32prog/x-46565127)
2020-09-28 08:34:51 → cfricke joins (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2020-09-28 08:35:32 <phadej> that's not meaningful, in some reduction order evaluation could diverge, in one not.
2020-09-28 08:35:36 <Cheery> johnnyboy[m]: it's possible to violate that in Haskell, but technically you'd like that to hold.
2020-09-28 08:36:27 <phadej> but yes, we like (sometimes) to think that Haskell is well-behaved rewrite system.
2020-09-28 08:38:43 <johnnyboy[m]> it's slightly confusing to see different terminology for what appears to be the same things in Haskell and lambda-calculus
2020-09-28 08:38:57 <johnnyboy[m]> evaluation vs. reduction/contraction
2020-09-28 08:39:29 <johnnyboy[m]> call-by-name vs. normal order reduction (I'm not sure if these are the same)
2020-09-28 08:39:55 → __monty__ joins (~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2020-09-28 08:40:02 <johnnyboy[m]> on the other hand, things often tend to have different names in different contexts
2020-09-28 08:40:29 × Uzuki quits (a010718c@160.16.113.140) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:40:55 <johnnyboy[m]> after learning some category theory, regular math starts to look like as if it's constantly reinventing the same wheel under different names
2020-09-28 08:41:13 <c_wraith> Haskell isn't confluent in the sense that every expression reduces.
2020-09-28 08:41:29 <johnnyboy[m]> yes, I know that part
2020-09-28 08:41:39 <johnnyboy[m]> but it could be weakly normalising
2020-09-28 08:41:59 <Cheery> System.IO.Unsafe
2020-09-28 08:42:16 <Cheery> you get unsafePerformIO :: IO a -> a
2020-09-28 08:42:26 × elred_ quits (~elred_@84.39.116.180) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-28 08:42:57 <c_wraith> But people do say that every expression that converges under *some* evaluation order should converge in Haskell. I haven't gone digging through the spec to verify that it's actually in there.
2020-09-28 08:44:08 × hnOsmium0001 quits (uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtubdednlwbvjfwc) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-28 08:44:23 <johnnyboy[m]> I think there's this theorem in lambda-calculus saying that the leftmost outermost strategy always finds the normal form if it exitsts
2020-09-28 08:44:53 <c_wraith> and obviously that falls apart when you start doing things with unsafePerformIO like reading from an IORef and doing different things based on the result.
2020-09-28 08:45:53 <johnnyboy[m]> I was considering the pure part of Haskell
2020-09-28 08:46:05 <johnnyboy[m]> I probably should have mentioned that
2020-09-28 08:46:07 <c_wraith> But in the subset of haskell that bans execution, yeah
2020-09-28 08:46:28 → o1lo01ol1o joins (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-28 08:47:03 <ggVGc> the best part about unsafePerformIO is that in the worst case you're just doing JS :D
2020-09-28 08:47:09 <cpressey> The pure part of Haskell should be confluent, in the sense that term is used in term rewriting. If there are exceptions, I'd like to know about them,
2020-09-28 08:47:14 <Uniaika> ggVGc: hahaha
2020-09-28 08:47:30 → dhil joins (~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-28 08:47:37 <ggVGc> I mean, it's not entirely true...
2020-09-28 08:47:40 <cpressey> *I'd sure like to know about them!
2020-09-28 08:47:41 <ggVGc> worst case you're doing C++ I guess
2020-09-28 08:47:55 × o1lo01ol1o quits (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-28 08:47:55 <ggVGc> which to be fair is pretty bad
2020-09-28 08:48:07 <c_wraith> nah. the worst case with unsafePerformIO is really worse than that, as GHC is free to optimize pretending it doesn't exist.
2020-09-28 08:48:13 <johnnyboy[m]> do you get runtime linkage errors in Haskell?
2020-09-28 08:48:18 <ggVGc> oh well
2020-09-28 08:48:19 <johnnyboy[m]> if not, that's not C++ :P
2020-09-28 08:48:21 → o1lo01ol1o joins (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-28 08:48:57 × bastelfreak quits (~bastelfre@voxpupuli/pmc/bastelfreak) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-28 08:49:00 <c_wraith> cpressey: I think you have to consider all bottoms equivalent, otherwise imprecise exceptions bite you
2020-09-28 08:49:23 <cpressey> Oh right, exceptions
2020-09-28 08:49:37 → Dolly joins (585fc8fd@ti0203q160-3035.bb.online.no)
2020-09-28 08:49:50 <johnnyboy[m]> in lambda-calculus, not all non-normalising terms can be considered as bottoms
2020-09-28 08:50:00 <johnnyboy[m]> otherwise, the system becomes inconsistent
2020-09-28 08:51:04 <c_wraith> Haskell is already an inconsistent logic. (Turns out programming is way easier as a practical matter when your type system is an inconsistent logic)
2020-09-28 08:51:36 <johnnyboy[m]> I wonder if there are paraconsistent programming languages...
2020-09-28 08:52:52 → thir joins (~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-09-28 09:00:07 × thir quits (~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2020-09-28 09:09:21 → Uzukiw619 joins (a010718c@160.16.113.140)
2020-09-28 09:09:53 <dminuoso> Im adding some "audit logging" to a servant api, where interaction with resources cause audit trails that can be read from though `/foo/:id/audit`. Ive started to have this type `data LogEntry = LogEntry { logSlug :: LogSlug, logMessage :: Text, logTimestamp :: UTCTime }`, where LogSlug is this huge coproduct type of nullary constructors with `data LogSlug = FooHappened | BarHappened |
2020-09-28 09:09:54 <dminuoso> StuffChanged | ...`
2020-09-28 09:10:06 <dminuoso> Is this idea of having a large coproduct type sensible for this usecase?
2020-09-28 09:10:26 → fiQ2 joins (~fiQ@mirkk.ninja)
2020-09-28 09:10:38 × Dolly quits (585fc8fd@ti0203q160-3035.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-28 09:15:07 <gentauro> dminuoso: what about `data LogSlug = LogCode Word`?
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