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| 2021-05-04 07:05:37 | <olligobber> | I have a very complicated error to figure out |
| 2021-05-04 07:06:05 | <olligobber> | oh I just figured it out |
| 2021-05-04 07:06:06 | <Axman6> | this is how you know you're writing proper haskell |
| 2021-05-04 07:06:53 | <olligobber> | the typing information is getting dropped after the template haskell is generated |
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| 2021-05-04 07:10:59 | <olligobber> | yay it works |
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| 2021-05-04 07:53:31 | <fuzzypixelz> | I made another monad tutorial: https://www.fuzzypixelz.com/2021/05/01/The-M-Word/ |
| 2021-05-04 07:53:54 | <fuzzypixelz> | (just what you needed) |
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| 2021-05-04 07:54:26 | <Rembane> | fuzzypixelz: It doesn't contain any burritos. :O |
| 2021-05-04 07:54:29 | Rembane | reads the tutorial |
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| 2021-05-04 08:02:47 | <maerwald> | fuzzypixelz: some critique: I find it a bit questionable to start with the laws (I prefer the parser approach). The second paragraph about the Why is kind of a misrepresentation: Monads have nothing to do with purity. And IO works without Monads too. |
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| 2021-05-04 08:11:44 | <maerwald> | the limitations of an applicative parser is a great introduction into monads, but then you have to explain applicative first |
| 2021-05-04 08:12:28 | <maerwald> | And it's also something you can code up yourself in a reasonable amount of time |
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| 2021-05-04 08:13:51 | <merijn> | maerwald: You're not alone who thinks starting with laws is questionable :p |
| 2021-05-04 08:14:07 | <merijn> | maerwald: See one of my favourite quotes on math education :p |
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| 2021-05-04 08:14:56 | <merijn> | Suppose that you want to teach the 'cat' concept to a very young child. Do you explain that a cat is a relatively small, primarily carnivorous mammal with retractible claws, a distinctive sonic output, etc.? I'll bet not. You probably show the kid a lot of different cats, saying 'kitty' each time, until it gets the idea. To put it more generally, generalizations are best made by abstraction from |
| 2021-05-04 08:15:02 | <merijn> | experience. |
| 2021-05-04 08:15:04 | <merijn> | - R. P. Boas (Can we make mathematics intelligible?, American Mathematical Monthly 88 (1981), pp. 727-731) |
| 2021-05-04 08:15:52 | <maerwald> | Yeah, the other approach is showing recurring patterns that can be abstracted out with the Monad class |
| 2021-05-04 08:16:07 | <maerwald> | It's not like we didn't use Monads before the Monad class |
| 2021-05-04 08:16:20 | <merijn> | maerwald: Well, that's Boas' exact point, no? :p |
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| 2021-05-04 08:16:28 | <merijn> | Also, the original monad paper follows that method too |
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| 2021-05-04 08:19:08 | <maerwald> | I learn better by contrast... so in order to know what a cat is, show me a dog first :p |
| 2021-05-04 08:19:24 | <olligobber> | hmm, so adding `AsSet' to a type declaration is causing errors... |
| 2021-05-04 08:20:07 | <olligobber> | in particular, this AsSet: https://github.com/olligobber/IotaBF/blob/main/lib/Functional/Iota/Free.hs#L29 |
| 2021-05-04 08:20:32 | <olligobber> | which is weird, because the list I'm converting to a set has no repeats |
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| 2021-05-04 08:37:42 | <olligobber> | huh, converting a list with more than 1 element to a set is breaking my instances |
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| 2021-05-04 08:40:22 | <sshine> | olligobber, post example? |
| 2021-05-04 08:40:25 | <olligobber> | wait, is there a difference between : and ': ? |
| 2021-05-04 08:40:50 | <sshine> | ': looks like a type-level literal |
| 2021-05-04 08:40:54 | <c_wraith> | sometimes the parser gets confused with promoted types |
| 2021-05-04 08:40:57 | <__monty__> | ': sounds like the DataKinds promoted version. |
| 2021-05-04 08:40:58 | <fuzzypixelz> | maerwald: thanks for your feedback. Could you please elaborate on `Monads have nothing to do with purity. And IO works without Monads too.`? |
| 2021-05-04 08:41:33 | <olligobber> | nah, switching : to ': didn't fix it |
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| 2021-05-04 08:41:50 | <olligobber> | I'll make a mwe |
| 2021-05-04 08:43:38 | <sshine> | since fuzzypixelz is asking, I'll also ask: can you have first-class effects that are non-monadic? or would non-monadic IO be with side-effects? |
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