Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-04-19 07:10:53 | × | Rudd0 quits (~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:11:34 | → | cfricke joins (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) |
| 2021-04-19 07:12:33 | → | dpl joins (~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net) |
| 2021-04-19 07:13:46 | → | Mrbuck joins (~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) |
| 2021-04-19 07:15:13 | → | berberman_ joins (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) |
| 2021-04-19 07:16:03 | × | berberman quits (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:17:04 | × | nut` quits (~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-04-19 07:18:26 | → | thc202 joins (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) |
| 2021-04-19 07:18:53 | × | bitmapper quits (uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vpfgdoawvwkfbpxh) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-04-19 07:23:14 | → | Sornaensis joins (~Sornaensi@077213200034.dynamic.telenor.dk) |
| 2021-04-19 07:29:22 | → | raehik joins (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-04-19 07:30:09 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-04-19 07:32:14 | → | davidfetter1 joins (~davidfett@195.140.213.38) |
| 2021-04-19 07:35:50 | → | Sorna joins (~Sornaensi@79.142.232.102) |
| 2021-04-19 07:35:54 | <maerwald> | do mods enforce pronoun compliance here? |
| 2021-04-19 07:35:56 | → | jumper149 joins (~jumper149@80.240.31.34) |
| 2021-04-19 07:36:45 | × | jb55 quits (~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:37:41 | → | jb55 joins (~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) |
| 2021-04-19 07:38:36 | × | Sornaensis quits (~Sornaensi@077213200034.dynamic.telenor.dk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:41:20 | <toppler`> | One of my maths tutors said that the purpose of "we" is so that when you make a mistake, you can blame everyone. |
| 2021-04-19 07:42:17 | → | ddellacosta joins (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-04-19 07:44:23 | <pjb> | toppler`: math tutors have a good sense of humour in general. |
| 2021-04-19 07:46:11 | × | geowiesnot quits (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:46:26 | × | ddellacosta quits (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 07:47:25 | <tdammers> | maerwald: only if your pronouns are "xhkle/xhklim/xhkler" |
| 2021-04-19 07:48:11 | → | michalz joins (~user@185.246.204.56) |
| 2021-04-19 07:58:15 | <tdammers> | though on a more serious note, singular / plural are highly messed up in most European languages, partly due to the frequent language clashes, partly due to feudalism and the habit of using singular and plural as expressions of social status |
| 2021-04-19 07:59:23 | <pjb> | tdammers: on a more serious notes, language is more sophisticated that SJW believe. |
| 2021-04-19 07:59:48 | <pjb> | tdammers: ie. the grammatical form is UNRELATED to the actual physical or biological reality! |
| 2021-04-19 07:59:52 | <pjb> | DUH! |
| 2021-04-19 08:00:06 | <pjb> | tdammers: in French, a table is female, a desk is male !!! |
| 2021-04-19 08:00:25 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-04-19 08:00:37 | → | GZJ0X_ joins (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 2021-04-19 08:00:45 | <pjb> | tdammers: grammatical singular and plural, just like grammatical gender, are unrelated to number and sex. |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:07 | <Uniaika> | am French, can testify our pronouns system is fucked up |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:14 | <pjb> | It is not. |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:23 | <Uniaika> | It is |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:24 | <pjb> | Grammar works at a higher, and more symbolic level. |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:24 | × | evanjs quits (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:35 | <Uniaika> | then why don't we have a neutral pronoun? |
| 2021-04-19 08:01:46 | <pjb> | But we have it! |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:03 | <pjb> | "on" |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:29 | → | kritzefitz joins (~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:31 | <pjb> | and male is neutral as well as it covers both male and female. |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:43 | <gnumonic> | Eh we don't have a real second person plural in english. Y'all? Youse? Yinz? |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:50 | <Uniaika> | gnumonic: thy |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:54 | <Uniaika> | ah, plural |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:55 | <Uniaika> | well |
| 2021-04-19 08:02:58 | <Uniaika> | it's "you" |
| 2021-04-19 08:03:11 | <Uniaika> | but English forgot its second person singular |
| 2021-04-19 08:03:14 | <Uniaika> | which is a pity |
| 2021-04-19 08:03:33 | × | gzj quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 08:03:34 | <tdammers> | pjb: they are not entirely unrelated, but the relationship is much more complex than a plain "equals" or "implies" |
| 2021-04-19 08:03:34 | <pjb> | If you're unstatisfied of the historic layers in natural languages, you should just start again from scratch. |
| 2021-04-19 08:04:37 | <tdammers> | but yes, it is important to recognize that grammatical gender, social gender, and biological sex, are different things that correlate to varying degrees |
| 2021-04-19 08:04:59 | <Uniaika> | tdammers: yep |
| 2021-04-19 08:05:05 | → | evanjs joins (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-04-19 08:06:26 | <tdammers> | for example, when it is clear from the context that I am talking about a human whom I know personally, and I use grammatically male pronouns, then in practically all European languages and their associated cultures, that implies that I consider that person as socially male |
| 2021-04-19 08:07:06 | <maerwald> | tdammers: well, in #python, they are enforced, at least partly. Just wanted to check. |
| 2021-04-19 08:07:19 | → | hendursa1 joins (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 2021-04-19 08:08:13 | <maerwald> | the main issue is coming up with a default pronoun |
| 2021-04-19 08:08:41 | <tdammers> | "xhkle" |
| 2021-04-19 08:08:47 | <maerwald> | :> |
| 2021-04-19 08:08:54 | <Uniaika> | hey I know that vim binding |
| 2021-04-19 08:09:03 | <tdammers> | seriously though: it's really a cultural problem rather than a linguistic one |
| 2021-04-19 08:09:17 | <gnumonic> | I just wish we had a finite set of pronouns. I'll call anyone whatever they want to be called, but pronouns sorta cease to serve the role of pronouns if you have to remember 100 different ones for 100 people -_- |
| 2021-04-19 08:09:33 | × | hendursaga quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 08:09:35 | <maerwald> | yeah, it's unpractical |
| 2021-04-19 08:09:47 | <tdammers> | using the wrong pronouns is a problem because our culture(s) consider misgendering someone an offense |
| 2021-04-19 08:10:05 | <tdammers> | and that, in turn, is because some genders have historically been privileged, and largely still are |
| 2021-04-19 08:10:41 | <tdammers> | which is the reason why distinguishing social genders in the language is kind of a big deal in the first place |
| 2021-04-19 08:10:55 | <tdammers> | if gender didn't matter, we wouldn't have grammatical genders |
| 2021-04-19 08:11:05 | × | kritzefitz quits (~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 08:11:22 | → | idhugo__ joins (~idhugo@130.225.16.16) |
| 2021-04-19 08:11:46 | <tdammers> | or maybe we would, but they'd be something completely different than "male/female/neutral"; they might be something like "anthropomorph/concrete/abstract" maybe |
| 2021-04-19 08:11:47 | <maerwald> | at any rate, it's easy to avoid them altogether, by just using the nick instead |
| 2021-04-19 08:12:05 | <tdammers> | well, at least the second person pronouns in English are gender-neutral |
| 2021-04-19 08:12:26 | <merijn> | tdammers: Fun fact: some languages do have someting like "alive/dead" as "genders" :) |
| 2021-04-19 08:12:45 | <merijn> | But that's maybe more for -offtopic :p |
| 2021-04-19 08:12:58 | <tdammers> | merijn: oh yes, human languages never cease to amaze. there are languages that have different pronunciation and grammar based on the gender of the *speaker* |
| 2021-04-19 08:13:22 | → | GutsTheme joins (1b04cef3@27.4.206.243) |
| 2021-04-19 08:13:33 | × | idhugo_ quits (~idhugo@87-49-45-4-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 08:13:35 | <GutsTheme> | HI |
| 2021-04-19 08:13:36 | <opqdonut> | I'm pretty glad my native language (finnish) isn't gendered at all. I think swedish is interesting in that it has male/female gendered pronouns, but nouns are gendered arbitrarily (linguistically male/neuter, but nobody thinks of it that way) |
| 2021-04-19 08:14:01 | <opqdonut> | but err yeah this is probably better suited for the offtopic channel |
| 2021-04-19 08:14:10 | <gnumonic> | Finnish: A language with no genders but like 50 different words for getting drunk :P |
| 2021-04-19 08:14:11 | × | GZJ0X_ quits (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-04-19 08:15:16 | <Maxdamantus> | gnumonic: it's "second-person singular" that's missing, not plural, but even thinking about it like that is misleading. |
| 2021-04-19 08:15:42 | <Maxdamantus> | There's only really one "singular" in English, and that's third-person. |
| 2021-04-19 08:16:22 | <Maxdamantus> | everything other than third-person singular uses regular verbs corresponding to third-person plural. |
| 2021-04-19 08:16:48 | <Maxdamantus> | I eat, we eat, you eat, they eat, it eats |
| 2021-04-19 08:17:59 | <toppler`> | Haskell types should have a gender. |
| 2021-04-19 08:18:32 | <toppler`> | Not sure how well this would play with higher-kinding. |
| 2021-04-19 08:18:38 | <merijn> | I say this topic has now officially ran its course and is thoroughly *not* Haskell related... >.> |
| 2021-04-19 08:18:39 | → | Gurkenglas joins (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) |
| 2021-04-19 08:18:55 | <joel135> | Dialects of swedish have male/female distinctions in indefinite articles (e.g. jen/je/jett instead of en/ett). |
| 2021-04-19 08:19:05 | <Maxdamantus> | I don't think it's useful enough in Haskell. |
| 2021-04-19 08:20:07 | <GutsTheme> | I want to retain the value of a variable through replicateM_ loops, how can one do that ? |
| 2021-04-19 08:20:08 | joel135 | goes to #haskell-offtopic. |
| 2021-04-19 08:20:08 | <Maxdamantus> | The purpose of distinct agreement in natural language is probably to try to resolve some syntactic/referential ambiguities, but Haskell avoids those in other ways. |
All times are in UTC.