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2020-11-25 03:10:14 × falafel_ quits (~falafel@2601:547:1303:b30:7811:313f:d0f3:f9f4) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-25 03:12:34 <koz_> Sonolin: Basically FRP is intended for highly interactive or async systems.
2020-11-25 03:12:52 <koz_> If your case _isn't_ one of those two, it's probably not worth it.
2020-11-25 03:13:09 <koz_> (like, nothing is stopping you from using FRP for something like that, but it's likely more trouble than it's worth)
2020-11-25 03:13:16 <Sonolin> yea I can see how that can be useful, probably not the best for my case
2020-11-25 03:13:36 <Sonolin> something to look at if I add multi threading and/or realtime capabilities in the future, though
2020-11-25 03:14:29 <koz_> Sonolin: Multi-threading is an implementation detail. Asynchrony not so much.
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2020-11-25 04:08:01 <Axman6> guest1125: I doubt it, but it would make for a fun way to visualise things
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2020-11-25 04:13:34 <Axman6> guest1125: did you sort out youyr time/file naming issues?
2020-11-25 04:13:37 <Axman6> your*
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2020-11-25 04:15:01 hackage language-dickinson 1.4.1.0 - A language for generative literature https://hackage.haskell.org/package/language-dickinson-1.4.1.0 (vmchale)
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2020-11-25 04:48:36 × Gurkenglas quits (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-25 04:49:49 <triteraflops> Clean uses uniqueness types to do all of its IO. It seems to work fine and is about a billion times easier to understand than monads, no offence.
2020-11-25 04:50:12 <triteraflops> Also, it allows destructive updates! There has got to be some kind of catch. What's the catch?
2020-11-25 04:50:49 <koz_> triteraflops: Who says monads are about IO?
2020-11-25 04:50:53 <Axman6> what makes you think we don't have destructive updates?
2020-11-25 04:50:57 <koz_> Also this.
2020-11-25 04:51:13 <triteraflops> koz_: haskell implements IO with monads. Therefore monads are about IO.
2020-11-25 04:51:21 <triteraflops> They aren't just about IO, but they are about IO.
2020-11-25 04:51:44 <dsal> Monads are about IO?
2020-11-25 04:52:21 <triteraflops> Have you actually done any IO in haskell? Yes, IO and monads are obviously related.
2020-11-25 04:52:26 <dsal> IO is one of the monads I use in my code, but most of the monads I use aren't IO.
2020-11-25 04:52:44 <dsal> My mom and I are related, but I'm not my mom.
2020-11-25 04:52:44 <koz_> What dsal says, pretty much.
2020-11-25 04:52:49 <Digit> would it be fair to say, IO is implemented with monads, but not all monads have anything to do with IO?
2020-11-25 04:53:46 <triteraflops> In my first question I didn't even say IO was the only thing monads do.
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2020-11-25 04:54:21 <triteraflops> You understand the question and you know it. If you can answer it, answer it. Save me your mindless pedantry.
2020-11-25 04:54:28 <triteraflops> This is why people don't like haskell.
2020-11-25 04:54:56 <dsal> Asserting people understanding you doesn't make it so. You can do IO without monads in Haskell.
2020-11-25 04:55:11 <koz_> Applicative can easily be enough to do all the IO you need.
2020-11-25 04:55:15 <triteraflops> dsal: how in the hell would you do that? Safely?
2020-11-25 04:55:18 <koz_> (I've seen a few cases like this)
2020-11-25 04:55:19 <dsal> Or even a functor.
2020-11-25 04:55:39 <koz_> It's a question of how much power the interface requires.
2020-11-25 04:55:49 <triteraflops> Only a subset of IO problems could be solved like that.
2020-11-25 04:55:52 <koz_> Sometimes you truly need the full power of monad to describe the IO you wanna do.
2020-11-25 04:55:55 <koz_> Sometimes, you don't.
2020-11-25 04:56:02 <Axman6> triteraflops: we had IO in Haskell before monadic IO
2020-11-25 04:56:24 <triteraflops> Axman6: and it was referentially transparent?
2020-11-25 04:56:43 <Axman6> I believe so, I can't remember what it looked like
2020-11-25 04:56:45 <triteraflops> It doesn't even matter. Modern haskell IO uses monads generally.
2020-11-25 04:57:06 <triteraflops> Clean does not, and is still referentially transparent. It uses uniqueness types.
2020-11-25 04:57:12 <triteraflops> Is there some kind of catch?
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