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2020-10-16 02:36:54 <lambdabot> Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2020-10-16 02:36:59 <koz_> This also takes a function as an argument.
2020-10-16 02:37:04 <koz_> Note where they are positioned.
2020-10-16 02:37:14 <koz_> This is literally readable straight out of the type.
2020-10-16 02:37:29 × lemmih quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:37:58 <crestfallen> yes the operands have the function in the first and second places respectively
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2020-10-16 02:38:18 <koz_> crestfallen: So... what's the issue?
2020-10-16 02:38:39 <koz_> The reason the arguments are arranged that way is literally written into their types.
2020-10-16 02:38:40 × cr3 quits (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-16 02:38:48 <koz_> Is your question '_why_ is it that they're arranged that way?'.
2020-10-16 02:38:54 <koz_> The answer is 'because someone decided it so'.
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2020-10-16 02:39:12 <koz_> There's no (particular) reason why the arguments to bind or <$> are in the order that they are.
2020-10-16 02:39:17 <koz_> But that's how they're defined.
2020-10-16 02:39:31 <crestfallen> ok fair enough. because yeah I would have thought that the function would have been in the same operand place
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2020-10-16 02:39:41 <koz_> crestfallen: No, there's no reason for this.
2020-10-16 02:40:00 <koz_> Order of arguments is arbitrary. There are some ergonomic issues regarding currying, but in this case, it's arbitrary.
2020-10-16 02:40:12 <solonarv> oh! I see what you mean now. This is a reason I often use =<< instead of >>=
2020-10-16 02:40:29 × lemmih quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:40:38 <koz_> solonarv: Yeah, and I think there's a flipped fmap too.
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2020-10-16 02:41:30 <crestfallen> excellent. yeah because technically, despite the context that bind is giving us, in some sense id is being applied to (Just (Just 5)) , right?
2020-10-16 02:41:58 <koz_> crestfallen: I don't understand what you're saying.
2020-10-16 02:41:59 × lemmih quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:42:04 <koz_> Bind is defined the way it is.
2020-10-16 02:42:08 <koz_> It means what its definition says.
2020-10-16 02:42:14 <crestfallen> but if you look at it as > (>>=) (Just (Just 5)) id it looks odd
2020-10-16 02:42:28 <koz_> Yeah - there's a reason we don't often write infix operators prefix.
2020-10-16 02:42:44 <koz_> We can do it, and sometimes it can be more useful or readable that way, but there's a reason why >>= is infix.
2020-10-16 02:43:18 <koz_> There's no a priori reason why bind needed to be an infix operator. We could actually do _everything_ prefix!
2020-10-16 02:43:37 × ensyde quits (~ensyde@2600:1702:2e30:1a40:48f9:cdc3:db29:25b7) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-16 02:44:06 <crestfallen> yeah, the distinction affects my perception of it, tis all..
2020-10-16 02:44:26 <monochrom> Some people want to write everything mixfix.
2020-10-16 02:44:35 <koz_> monochrom: These people write Agda.
2020-10-16 02:44:42 <monochrom> yeah :)
2020-10-16 02:44:56 <crestfallen> like looking at a function and saying, ok this goes here, and that goes there, and this is what the machine is doing :)
2020-10-16 02:45:43 <crestfallen> thanks great session koz_ et al
2020-10-16 02:47:52 <crestfallen> yeah solonarv 's point makes it more intuitive:
2020-10-16 02:47:55 <crestfallen> λ> (=<<) id (Just (Just 5))
2020-10-16 02:48:49 <crestfallen> but that's wrong to think of it that way. because id is not applied that way, right koz_ ?
2020-10-16 02:49:04 <koz_> crestfallen: I genuinely don't understand what you're saying or asking.
2020-10-16 02:49:13 <koz_> So I have no idea whether it's wrong to think of 'it' 'that way' or not.
2020-10-16 02:50:16 <crestfallen> nevermind thanks I'm overthinking it to poor results
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2020-10-16 02:52:41 <fraktor> I am also quite confused
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2020-10-16 03:36:27 <larou> i rewrote the "typing the knot" with a "cycle"
2020-10-16 03:36:28 hackage hakyll-process 0.0.1.0 - Hakyll compiler for arbitrary external processes. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hakyll-process-0.0.1.0 (jhmcstanton)
2020-10-16 03:36:28 <larou> https://pastebin.com/raw/J0e4fa3d
2020-10-16 03:37:51 <larou> it gives;
2020-10-16 03:37:52 <larou> *DLink> (fromCycle . (toCycle @False)) [1,2,3]
2020-10-16 03:37:53 <larou> [1,2,3]
2020-10-16 03:38:14 <larou> the regular tying the knot would not be able to do this
2020-10-16 03:38:21 <larou> since it could not "detect the cycle"
2020-10-16 03:38:41 <larou> ie, it would not support "fromCycle"
2020-10-16 03:39:03 <larou> i dont think the type applications machinery it requires was available at the time
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