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2020-10-16 01:59:19 × reppertj quits (~textual@pool-96-246-209-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-10-16 01:59:44 <crestfallen> koz_: yeah thanks. the unification of (>>=) and id , I fully get type-wise. sometimes when I try to visualize function application in the implementation, I visualize it differently from how I understand the types.
2020-10-16 02:00:25 <crestfallen> by-hand substitutions I really enjoy koz_
2020-10-16 02:00:38 <koz_> I actually had to do this recently to get myself out of CPS hell.
2020-10-16 02:00:41 <koz_> (at Real Job)
2020-10-16 02:01:09 × lagothrix quits (~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (Killed (card.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2020-10-16 02:01:15 → lagothrix joins (~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix)
2020-10-16 02:01:51 <crestfallen> koz_: you said to literally look up ...
2020-10-16 02:02:10 <crestfallen> dang it irssi won't give me scrollback!
2020-10-16 02:02:37 <koz_> crestfallen: Yep, in the sense of 'in the thing you pasted'.
2020-10-16 02:03:35 <crestfallen> <koz_> Literally look up the desugaring of do-notation, and rewrite that example with explicit use of return and bind.
2020-10-16 02:03:35 × xff0x quits (~fox@2001:1a81:538a:0:f127:8532:42d4:579b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:03:45 <koz_> Oh, in that sense.
2020-10-16 02:04:02 <koz_> Then I meant 'investigate' or 'find reference materials on'.
2020-10-16 02:04:08 <koz_> In the 'look up X in the dictionary' use.
2020-10-16 02:04:53 → xff0x joins (~fox@2001:1a81:5391:7900:f127:8532:42d4:579b)
2020-10-16 02:05:16 <crestfallen> yeah, you see I thought {ma <- mma; ma} was somehow knowing how to strip off the outer Just, as well as in {y <- x; y} .. somehow
2020-10-16 02:05:28 × Tops2 quits (~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-092-130.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-16 02:05:31 × urodna quits (~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2020-10-16 02:05:44 <crestfallen> but of course that is impossible koz_
2020-10-16 02:05:59 × lemmih_ quits (~lemmih@218.186.157.57) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:05:59 <koz_> crestfallen: Don't let syntax confuse you - the types tell the truth.
2020-10-16 02:06:23 → lemmih_ joins (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c)
2020-10-16 02:06:25 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:06:42 × lucasb quits (uid333435@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhpgfsleurzdehfq) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-10-16 02:06:57 <crestfallen> so I'm trying to think of where to find a good explanation of desugared do-notation ... working koz_ ...
2020-10-16 02:07:27 → elliott__ joins (~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-10-16 02:07:59 × lemmih_ quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:08:29 <koz_> crestfallen: https://wiki.haskell.org/Typeclassopedia#do_notation
2020-10-16 02:08:37 <koz_> The Typeclassopedia is the source of considerable wisdom.
2020-10-16 02:08:42 → lemmih_ joins (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c)
2020-10-16 02:08:44 <koz_> There's a desugaring grammar right in that entry.
2020-10-16 02:09:52 <crestfallen> hit on academic paper by marlow, peyton-jones, kmett et al :/
2020-10-16 02:10:16 <koz_> crestfallen: Yeah, have a read of the link above.
2020-10-16 02:10:16 <crestfallen> thanks kindly copy that koz_
2020-10-16 02:10:18 × oisdk quits (~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:11d5:8dc1:169a:e187) (Quit: oisdk)
2020-10-16 02:10:57 × pera quits (~pera@unaffiliated/pera) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:11:04 <crestfallen> I do get your explanation now and Ax*man's
2020-10-16 02:11:06 → pera joins (~pera@unaffiliated/pera)
2020-10-16 02:12:42 → fraktor joins (~walt@129.93.191.18)
2020-10-16 02:12:49 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-16 02:14:45 <fraktor> Would it be hypothetically possible to create something like Elm, where web apps are done using FRP and then rendered using a DOM diffing algorithm, to truly native applications?
2020-10-16 02:14:58 <koz_> fraktor: Hypothetically yes.
2020-10-16 02:15:04 <koz_> Given that Elm does this.
2020-10-16 02:15:14 <koz_> However, the practical details of this are... somewhat difficult.
2020-10-16 02:15:53 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-16 02:16:35 <fraktor> Yeah. Native GUIs don't have the same features for manipulating a DOM that web browsers do. Plus you need a cross-platform GUI library in the first place.
2020-10-16 02:17:30 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-10-16 02:18:15 → goepsilongo joins (~textual@2604:2000:1201:442c:2468:86aa:3a30:53a6)
2020-10-16 02:18:25 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-16 02:18:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:18:37 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-10-16 02:19:13 → drbean joins (~drbean@TC210-63-209-75.static.apol.com.tw)
2020-10-16 02:19:18 → polyrain joins (~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:5438:7f7:706e:c9b0)
2020-10-16 02:20:08 <fraktor> Speaking of which, I haven't done GUI programming in Haskell. Is there a preferred cross-platform library for it?
2020-10-16 02:20:18 <koz_> For what definition of 'cross-platform'?
2020-10-16 02:20:59 <koz_> If you consider GTK 'cross-platform', then there's some stuff on top of that.
2020-10-16 02:21:16 <koz_> I think there's some FLTK stuff as well.
2020-10-16 02:23:19 → Stanley00 joins (~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-10-16 02:23:58 × theDon quits (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-240.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:24:59 <crestfallen> koz_: also if I may, this is bugging me. how if we write it using prefix notation:
2020-10-16 02:25:02 <crestfallen> (>>=) (Just (Just 5)) id
2020-10-16 02:25:22 <koz_> crestfallen: What are you asking? 'how if we write it using prefix notation:' is not a sentence.
2020-10-16 02:25:22 → theDon joins (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-153.citykom.de)
2020-10-16 02:25:37 <crestfallen> sorry I'm writing it..
2020-10-16 02:26:26 → Saukk joins (~Saukk@2001:998:f9:2914:1c59:9bb5:b94c:4)
2020-10-16 02:26:41 <crestfallen> it looks like (m m a) is being applied to id
2020-10-16 02:27:02 → danso joins (~dan@107-190-41-58.cpe.teksavvy.com)
2020-10-16 02:28:45 <koz_> crestfallen: I still don't understand. What do you mean by that?
2020-10-16 02:28:57 <koz_> Like, are you saying that you don't get how prefix syntax is being used with an infix function?
2020-10-16 02:28:58 × revprez_1nzio quits (~revprez_a@pool-108-49-213-40.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-16 02:29:01 <koz_> Or something else?
2020-10-16 02:30:06 → revprez_anzio joins (~revprez_a@pool-108-49-213-40.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2020-10-16 02:30:11 <crestfallen> sorry my thinking is faulty. (<$>) (*10) [4,5,6] << yeah the pattern is the same here
2020-10-16 02:31:23 <crestfallen> > (*10) <$> [4,5,6]
2020-10-16 02:31:25 <lambdabot> [40,50,60]
2020-10-16 02:31:50 <crestfallen> no it's reversed. do you see my point koz_ ?
2020-10-16 02:32:01 <koz_> Nothing is reversed.
2020-10-16 02:32:16 <koz_> You can make an infix operator prefix by wrapping it in ().
2020-10-16 02:32:26 <koz_> And you can make a prefix function infix by wrapping it in ``.
2020-10-16 02:32:40 <koz_> Like, are you confused by the prefix-infix distinction?
2020-10-16 02:32:50 <koz_> I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to say, or indeed, what isn't clear to you.
2020-10-16 02:33:48 × nbloomf quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:55b2:236:b746:75d5) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-16 02:33:59 × lemmih_ quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:35:01 → lemmih joins (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c)
2020-10-16 02:35:21 <crestfallen> in this case , the function is listed on the rhs of the infix: (Just (Just 5)) >>= id
2020-10-16 02:35:29 <crestfallen> koz_: ^
2020-10-16 02:35:46 <koz_> crestfallen: Functions can be arguments to other functions.
2020-10-16 02:35:59 × lemmih quits (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 02:36:00 <koz_> There's nothing special about 'functions as arguments' versus 'non-functions as arguments'.
2020-10-16 02:36:12 <crestfallen> in this case, the function is on the lhs : (*10) <$> [4,5,6]
2020-10-16 02:36:24 <koz_> crestfallen: Yeah, and that's no different.
2020-10-16 02:36:29 <koz_> :t (>>)
2020-10-16 02:36:31 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
2020-10-16 02:36:32 → lemmih joins (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:e1c8:96e1:7910:2c4c)
2020-10-16 02:36:33 <koz_> Sorry
2020-10-16 02:36:38 <koz_> :t (>>=)
2020-10-16 02:36:39 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
2020-10-16 02:36:44 <koz_> This takes a function as an argument.
2020-10-16 02:36:53 <koz_> :t (<$>)
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