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2021-03-05 00:25:27 f-a parts (~f-a@151.68.209.64) ()
2021-03-05 00:25:52 jeffcasavant[m]1 joins (jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cfnhfidvuebvhzpm)
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2021-03-05 00:31:09 × elfets quits (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:31:22 × qih quits (~pi@210-54-120-166.adsl.xtra.co.nz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 00:32:10 qih__ joins (~pi@210-54-120-166.adsl.xtra.co.nz)
2021-03-05 00:32:33 <Axman6> Is Java's ArrayList implemented as a list of arrays, like Lazy ByteString/Text?
2021-03-05 00:32:41 <koz_> Axman6: Dynamic array.
2021-03-05 00:32:47 <koz_> With resizing at 1.5 I think?
2021-03-05 00:32:47 <Axman6> :'(
2021-03-05 00:33:00 <monochrom> The "List" part refers to its API.
2021-03-05 00:33:35 <monochrom> class ArrayList<T> implements List<T> etc
2021-03-05 00:33:54 qih__ keeps forgetting that his Desktop is a RPiv3 *not* the 8 Core AMD4 >8-/
2021-03-05 00:34:06 elliott__ joins (~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-05 00:34:17 <Axman6> I've thought for a while I wouldn't mind having a lazy vector type, which can give some of the advantages of lists' sharing, and possibly faster algorithms when contiguous memory is useful
2021-03-05 00:34:24 <monochrom> Where is your 8 core AMD then? :)
2021-03-05 00:34:29 <qih__> Stupid @medium, and their monstrous page bloat
2021-03-05 00:34:34 <koz_> Axman6: I _believe_ massiv has something like that?
2021-03-05 00:34:38 <qih__> monochrom: Dead, mobo failed.
2021-03-05 00:34:39 <koz_> (I could be wrong though)
2021-03-05 00:34:47 <Axman6> interesting, I need to look at massiv more
2021-03-05 00:34:56 <infinisil> alexfmpe: int-e: The new page is pretty bad for discovering extensions..
2021-03-05 00:35:15 <qih__> monochrom: New one en-route today.
2021-03-05 00:35:24 × nbloomf quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ad70:b790:2132:9c51) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-05 00:35:57 <infinisil> alexfmpe: I'm gonna keep using the slightly older version for now: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/glasgow_exts.html
2021-03-05 00:36:14 <monochrom> Yes this is why I said that webdevs should be confined to OLPC laptops.
2021-03-05 00:36:31 <koz_> monochrom: Agreed.
2021-03-05 00:36:38 <koz_> One Laptop Per Webdev.
2021-03-05 00:36:47 softwarm joins (44695313@ip68-105-83-19.sd.sd.cox.net)
2021-03-05 00:37:07 <qih__> koz_: To make them understand their $users pain? Agree.
2021-03-05 00:37:41 × softwarm quits (44695313@ip68-105-83-19.sd.sd.cox.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 00:39:21 <qih__> I couldn't imagine being in the global South and having to view the WWW/Internet via mobile-only, that'd be torture.
2021-03-05 00:39:36 × michalz quits (~user@185.246.204.47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 00:39:41 × bitmapper quits (uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrzgwioszwcozpng) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-05 00:41:08 <monochrom> https://danluu.com/web-bloat/ is a good take and critique on this. It is pretty bad even for rural parts of US.
2021-03-05 00:41:24 <qih__> monochrom: Ta.
2021-03-05 00:41:26 <koz_> Yeah - internet provision even within countries can vary a lot.
2021-03-05 00:42:08 × mouseghost quits (~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-05 00:42:53 <monochrom> The most heart-breaking part is that very trivial, no-brainer improvement techniques exist.
2021-03-05 00:44:31 × kiweun quits (~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:48e7:a60f:4556:52a3) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-05 00:49:04 kiweun joins (~kiweun@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-03-05 00:49:17 <qih__> It blows my little mind, that the US, the origin of the WWW/Internet actually has crap fraudband outside the major Urban locales. I thought us colonials were all alone in that.
2021-03-05 00:49:35 <koz_> qih__: Yeah. I knew a few folks in that particular predicament.
2021-03-05 00:49:44 <koz_> ('knew' in the sense 'they are no longer')
2021-03-05 00:50:23 <qih__> koz_: Right, lucky them. So much for all the NBN (AU) and UFB (NZ) efforts, eh?
2021-03-05 00:51:05 <koz_> qih__: I know of NBN woes. I dunno of fibre issues here. But then again, I live in a really good area and have hilarious speeds.
2021-03-05 00:51:41 <qih__> Nice.
2021-03-05 00:52:02 <koz_> (in fact I just realized my ISP is offering to make mine even more hilariously fast)
2021-03-05 00:52:11 <koz_> (to the point where I can just become a data center)
2021-03-05 00:54:40 <qih__> koz_: You are in AU, right?
2021-03-05 00:54:45 <koz_> NZ
2021-03-05 00:56:26 <qih__> Ah right, der. Nice one. In theory I have Gigabit but I suspect that due to over-scribing or network 'shaping' our speeds are now about 300Mbps max, used to be 900Mbps +/- 50 <= true story, it was awesome.
2021-03-05 00:56:57 <koz_> I mean... yeah, that's not ideal, but it's still 'hilariously fast' by any real measure IMHO,
2021-03-05 00:57:13 <koz_> Unless you wanna cosplay as a data center.
2021-03-05 00:57:57 <qih__> Where was Fibre when BitTorrent was all the rage, eh? <= not that breaching copyright restrictions is to be countenanced in any way!
2021-03-05 00:58:17 <koz_> Meanwhile here I am compiling GHC again.
2021-03-05 01:00:25 <qih__> I was reading in Graham Huttons 2 Edition on Haskell and noted "you cannot assign a value to a variable, then reassign another value to that variable", paraphrased. But I am sure I could. I made a quick Acceleration equation in the REPL, then could reassign the VAR ACCEL new arbitray values. Or am I mistaken?
2021-03-05 01:01:19 × stree quits (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 01:02:27 × theelous3 quits (~theelous3@unaffiliated/theelous3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 01:02:47 <dolio> Variables aren't assigned. The ones in e.g. a let are defined to be the value of some expression. They can shadow other variables with the same name, though.
2021-03-05 01:03:46 kibo joins (~kibo@51-171-46-249-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net)
2021-03-05 01:03:47 <koz_> Yeah, you'd have the equivalent of 'let x = whatever in let x = whateverElse in doMyThing x'.
2021-03-05 01:04:03 <qih__> dolio: Ah I get that now, thanks.
2021-03-05 01:04:06 × conal_ quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-05 01:06:28 <qih__> Like Python & Erlang, I did have to assign Velocity Final (vf) = something, etc, so it was quite friendly to work with, then just call the result using 'accel'.
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2021-03-05 01:11:56 <monochrom> Here is a short experiment to find out that the semantics is shadowing, not changing.
2021-03-05 01:12:01 <monochrom> (in the REPL)
2021-03-05 01:12:14 <monochrom> You first have, say, x=0.
2021-03-05 01:12:27 <monochrom> Then have f n = n + x
2021-03-05 01:12:38 <monochrom> Then you have x=1.
2021-03-05 01:12:51 <qih__> k
2021-03-05 01:12:53 <monochrom> Now you test what happens to f 5 for example.
2021-03-05 01:13:06 <monochrom> This shows which version of x f uses.
2021-03-05 01:13:54 stree joins (~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-05 01:15:03 <koz_> Is there some way to write 'foo :: (Functor f) => (a -> b, a -> c) -> f a -> f (b, c)'?
2021-03-05 01:15:25 <qih__> if x = 0, f 5 gives 5, but if x = 1, f 5, gives 6
2021-03-05 01:15:41 <monochrom> I think you convert (a->b, a->c) to (a -> (b,c)), then you can use fmap.
2021-03-05 01:15:56 <qih__> So f will use the latest version of x, so this is called 'shadowing'?
2021-03-05 01:16:22 <koz_> qih__: If by 'latest' you mean 'bound in the innermost scope', then yes.
2021-03-05 01:16:26 <monochrom> But f uses the old version.
2021-03-05 01:16:57 <Axman6> f uses the x which was in scope when it was defined
2021-03-05 01:17:17 <monochrom> "shadowing" refers to if you ask about x now, you get 1, but there is an old version of x, out of reach from your latest POV but f still has it.
2021-03-05 01:17:37 <Axman6> if you then redefine x, f will still point to the old one, but then if you redefine f too it will point to the new x
2021-03-05 01:17:40 <qih__> but isn't x = 0, defining x?
2021-03-05 01:18:18 <Axman6> yes, but it's not redefining all the previous uses of x
2021-03-05 01:18:23 <qih__> Get a result, assign x = 1, get a new result. That's how it worked out.
2021-03-05 01:18:33 <monochrom> The wording is "the new x shadows the old x". The subtext is "the old x is still around, just eclipsed"

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