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2020-10-16 00:46:22 × unlink2 quits (~unlink2@p200300ebcf17c500f1cd4c5efbdddd1e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-16 01:27:23 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-16 01:27:25 × thir quits (~thir@p200300f27f02580070028f68706a1e08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2020-10-16 01:29:54 <crestfallen> hi in line 29 we have do {ma <- mma; ma} so this behaves like bind, but there is no indication of (>>= id) . Does that work solely on how mma and ma are named in " mma <- ma " ? https://github.com/varreli/haskell/blob/master/monads/joinBind.txt
2020-10-16 01:30:54 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-16 01:32:32 → irc_user joins (uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tarrfebyaowlqxvj)
2020-10-16 01:33:49 <crestfallen> correction {ma <- mma}
2020-10-16 01:34:11 <koz_> crestfallen: If you look right above, it explains how bind relates to join. Then, you can read about do-notation to see how it desugars into bind.
2020-10-16 01:34:19 <Axman6> I don't understand the quetion, but the names don't matter at all
2020-10-16 01:34:32 <koz_> Literally look up the desugaring of do-notation, and rewrite that example with explicit use of return and bind.
2020-10-16 01:34:37 <koz_> It'll be quite enlightening.
2020-10-16 01:34:56 <Axman6> m do {ma <- mma; ma} becomes mma >>= \ma -> ma, aka mma >>= id
2020-10-16 01:35:18 <koz_> Axman6: So much mixed martial arts. :P
2020-10-16 01:35:43 × Kaiepi quits (~Kaiepi@nwcsnbsc03w-47-55-225-82.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-16 01:38:57 × cr3 quits (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-16 01:39:01 <crestfallen> koz_: Axman6: all do notation desugars into bind?
2020-10-16 01:39:08 <koz_> crestfallen: Yes, and return.
2020-10-16 01:39:28 <crestfallen> hold on please, not what I believed..
2020-10-16 01:40:28 <crestfallen> I understand well the unification above you pointed out koz_ .
2020-10-16 01:41:03 × m0rphism quits (~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-046-005-177-122.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-16 01:41:19 <crestfallen> ...
2020-10-16 01:43:30 <crestfallen> so if you have it looking like this:
2020-10-16 01:43:56 <crestfallen> (>>=) (Just (Just 5)) id
2020-10-16 01:44:16 → nineonine joins (~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-10-16 01:44:19 × justsomeguy quits (~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
2020-10-16 01:44:33 → merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-16 01:44:46 <koz_> > Just (Just 5) >>= id
2020-10-16 01:44:48 <lambdabot> Just 5
2020-10-16 01:45:22 <Axman6> > Just (Just 5) >>= \just5 -> just5
2020-10-16 01:45:24 <lambdabot> Just 5
2020-10-16 01:45:55 <koz_> Axman6: Are you Just-ice? :P
2020-10-16 01:46:17 <crestfallen> so does id apply to the first Just in (Just (Just 5)) ?
2020-10-16 01:46:28 <crestfallen> and take it away?
2020-10-16 01:46:56 <koz_> crestfallen: Let's look at the type of bind.
2020-10-16 01:47:02 <koz_> :t (>>=)
2020-10-16 01:47:03 <crestfallen> Axman6: that is very interesting: \just5 -> just5 *IS* id , right?
2020-10-16 01:47:04 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
2020-10-16 01:47:22 <koz_> Now, consider the case we were just looking at - what is 'm' here?
2020-10-16 01:47:22 <Axman6> Just a >>= f = f a; Nothing >>= _ = Nothing
2020-10-16 01:47:37 <koz_> (namely, 'Just (Just 5) >>= id')
2020-10-16 01:48:20 <crestfallen> 'm' here is Just
2020-10-16 01:48:47 <koz_> crestfallen: Incorrect.
2020-10-16 01:48:54 → Gurkenglas_ joins (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-10-16 01:49:08 <koz_> You're mixing type and value level.
2020-10-16 01:49:17 <koz_> Try again, and think about it carefully.
2020-10-16 01:50:49 <koz_> base-4.10 is GHC-8.what?
2020-10-16 01:50:57 <crestfallen> oh yeah ok so...
2020-10-16 01:52:10 × Gurkenglas quits (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-16 01:52:33 <crestfallen> so in Axman6 's example, 'a' is (Just a) ; it
2020-10-16 01:52:46 <Axman6> yep
2020-10-16 01:52:48 <crestfallen> it's the inner Just
2020-10-16 01:52:56 <Axman6> uh, which example
2020-10-16 01:53:13 <crestfallen> Just a >>= f = f a
2020-10-16 01:53:20 <Axman6> Just a >>= f = f a; Nothing >>= _ = Nothing is the definition of (>>=) for Maybe
2020-10-16 01:53:41 <crestfallen> so id is applied to the inner (Just a)
2020-10-16 01:53:50 <Axman6> yep
2020-10-16 01:54:18 → ashbreeze joins (~mark@72-161-253-104.dyn.centurytel.net)
2020-10-16 01:55:20 <crestfallen> so Axman6 koz_ when you used this lambda notation Just (Just 5) >>= \just5 -> just5 ...
2020-10-16 01:55:38 <koz_> \just5 -> just5 is alpha-equivalent to id.
2020-10-16 01:55:54 <koz_> As is \foo -> foo, \bar -> bar, \koz -> koz, etc etc etc.
2020-10-16 01:56:07 <crestfallen> that is very interesting. I mean, I know that, but seeing that is awesome.
2020-10-16 01:56:39 × _ashbreeze_ quits (~mark@72-161-255-212.dyn.centurytel.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-16 01:57:13 <crestfallen> so id is not applied to the outer 'container', only Just a, the inner container.
2020-10-16 01:57:52 <crestfallen> thanks kindly, today is a success koz_ Axman6
2020-10-16 01:58:15 <koz_> crestfallen: I was leading you there, but yeah. It's _very_ key that you follow the types.
2020-10-16 01:58:25 <koz_> This can sometimes mean by-hand substitutions to get what's going on.
2020-10-16 01:58:33 <koz_> I do it all the time, and it's actually quite enlightening.
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