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2020-09-30 21:46:56 → Amras joins (~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
2020-09-30 21:47:33 <heebo> yeah since early 8
2020-09-30 21:47:47 <heebo> ghc moves so fast , its really hard to keep up
2020-09-30 21:48:09 <sm[m]> I would guess the answer is: not that you'd notice
2020-09-30 21:48:14 <maerwald> if you mean compilation speed, code generation quality etc... I'm actually not sure
2020-09-30 21:48:24 <heebo> spend a little time studying rust , cat theory or machine learning - and come back to a changed haskell world
2020-09-30 21:48:26 <maerwald> But new GHC extensions for sure
2020-09-30 21:48:33 <heebo> lol
2020-09-30 21:48:48 × son0p quits (~son0p@181.136.122.143) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-30 21:49:11 <heebo> i havent got my head around all of the extensions from 8
2020-09-30 21:49:16 <sm[m]> I believe some libs have had some significant speedups lately, like bytestring
2020-09-30 21:49:35 <maerwald> heebo: debugging got a little better maybe
2020-09-30 21:49:57 <sm[m]> some pathologically slow cases will have been fixed
2020-09-30 21:50:25 <heebo> oh nice ill tuck in and find out whats clever , thanks all
2020-09-30 21:51:20 <maerwald> you might also have noticed the exciting tool wars... I think all that hadn't begun yet prior to 8
2020-09-30 21:51:27 × Gurkenglas quits (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-30 21:52:02 <heebo> as in hls vs hie?
2020-09-30 21:52:20 <maerwald> that's not a war, just confusion and rebranding :p
2020-09-30 21:52:20 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 21:52:30 <maerwald> rather cabal vs stack
2020-09-30 21:52:35 × ransom quits (~c4264035@c-73-243-2-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-30 21:52:42 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 21:52:43 <maerwald> and then nix came along too
2020-09-30 21:53:02 <heebo> cabal fought back?
2020-09-30 21:53:05 <maerwald> yeah
2020-09-30 21:53:25 → ransom joins (~c4264035@c-73-243-2-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2020-09-30 21:53:27 <heebo> how?
2020-09-30 21:53:28 <maerwald> went into training and increased its power level
2020-09-30 21:53:30 → son0p joins (~son0p@181.136.122.143)
2020-09-30 21:53:31 <heebo> lol
2020-09-30 21:53:38 <heebo> over 9k?
2020-09-30 21:53:42 <maerwald> for sure
2020-09-30 21:53:58 → Gurkenglas joins (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-09-30 21:54:24 <heebo> i need to forgive cabal , i abandoned her a while ago
2020-09-30 21:54:37 <heebo> actually me and stack just used her behind the scenes
2020-09-30 21:54:41 → forcer1 joins (~forcer@193.56.252.210)
2020-09-30 21:54:47 <Cheery> Rembane: Why HTML builder should be a monad?
2020-09-30 21:55:07 <Rembane> Cheery: Mostly to get a nice syntax to work with
2020-09-30 21:55:36 <maerwald> heebo: also, sandboxes are gone
2020-09-30 21:55:39 <heebo> so you can combine builders ?
2020-09-30 21:56:02 <heebo> maerwald: what?! so.... do i need to buy and external harddrive?
2020-09-30 21:56:27 <sm[m]> no they're not.. phadej is trying to get rid of them..
2020-09-30 21:56:43 <maerwald> sm[m]: they are
2020-09-30 21:57:01 <heebo> Cheery: presumably so you can combine builders in an ordered way?
2020-09-30 21:57:05 <sm[m]> are not! :-p
2020-09-30 21:57:14 <maerwald> sm[m]: sandboxes are removed
2020-09-30 21:57:19 <maerwald> try it
2020-09-30 21:57:27 <monochrom> which version?
2020-09-30 21:57:47 <sm[m]> ok, I must be confused. I guess we still have only non-sandbox v1 ? I forgot they were different
2020-09-30 21:58:03 <maerwald> yes, that's different
2020-09-30 21:58:05 → AlterEgo- joins (~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2020-09-30 21:58:21 <sm[m]> but I'm still right because users will still show up here with cabal 2.4 (thx monochrom !)
2020-09-30 21:58:35 → kori joins (~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-30 21:58:35 <maerwald> 2.4 isn't recommended
2020-09-30 21:58:42 → mav1 joins (~mav@p5b02806a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-30 21:59:00 <sm[m]> ha ha they laugh at our non-recommendations
2020-09-30 21:59:04 <monochrom> "cabal v1-sandbox init" still does things, 3.2.0.0
2020-09-30 21:59:15 <sm[m]> there you go
2020-09-30 21:59:20 <heebo> ok so without sandboxes dont you just end up clobbering your workspace with irrellevant libraries?
2020-09-30 21:59:23 <monochrom> If my test is a bad test, let me know.
2020-09-30 21:59:37 × filwisher quits (~filwisher@cpc76738-dals23-2-0-cust186.20-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-30 21:59:50 <sm[m]> heebo: cabal by default now uses "v2" commands which share libs nicely
2020-09-30 21:59:52 <maerwald> monochrom: they are removed in 3.4.0.0-rc3
2020-09-30 21:59:53 <monochrom> No heebo, "nix-style", so like what stack does
2020-09-30 22:00:10 <monochrom> See? "which version?" was actually important.
2020-09-30 22:00:32 <monochrom> But rc3 and alpha27 don't count.
2020-09-30 22:00:51 <maerwald> 3.4.0.0-rc3 is gonna be out with ghc 9 most likely
2020-09-30 22:01:00 <monochrom> You still can't go around and say "GHC has LinearTypes now" just because 9.0.1-alpha1 has it.
2020-09-30 22:01:17 <monochrom> Well yes but we're still months before that.
2020-09-30 22:01:23 <maerwald> there is no 9.0.1-alpha1 (it's not valid PVP, haha)
2020-09-30 22:01:41 <monochrom> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.0.1-alpha1/
2020-09-30 22:02:01 <maerwald> monochrom: it reports something different if you do `ghc --numeric-version` :p
2020-09-30 22:02:16 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 22:02:16 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 22:02:25 <monochrom> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2020-September/026044.html
2020-09-30 22:02:42 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 22:02:44 × son0p quits (~son0p@181.136.122.143) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-30 22:03:08 <heebo> well is there any reason to use stack anymore?
2020-09-30 22:03:46 <Cheery> Hey.. I think I have isolated my usage patterns of beautiful soup module.
2020-09-30 22:03:54 <monochrom> Yes if you outsource GHC installation to stack so you don't think about it.
2020-09-30 22:04:01 <monochrom> Yes if you like stackage's vision.
2020-09-30 22:04:21 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-09-30 22:04:27 × ericsagnes quits (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:995e:484:bdc6:4ac4) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-30 22:04:46 <Cheery> The obvious one is that I fetch stuff.
2020-09-30 22:05:06 <maerwald> monochrom: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/2496
2020-09-30 22:05:07 <Cheery> the next one is that I replace stuff with something else.
2020-09-30 22:05:10 × aldessa quits (~Hugh@host-2-103-12-241.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-30 22:05:29 → aldessa joins (~Hugh@host-2-103-12-241.as13285.net)
2020-09-30 22:05:37 → Guest56 joins (93877451@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.135.116.81)
2020-09-30 22:05:44 × urdh quits (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-30 22:05:51 <monochrom> heebo: The new cabal semantics is at https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/nix-local-build-overview.html
2020-09-30 22:06:10 <Cheery> so for example, my code might be locating title and body of the document.
2020-09-30 22:06:26 <Cheery> then it may do stuff to it, and reconstruct the document.
2020-09-30 22:06:28 <monochrom> maerwald: Oh, that. Bug, like I thought.
2020-09-30 22:06:50 → son0p joins (~son0p@181.136.122.143)
2020-09-30 22:06:52 <monochrom> Err wait, nevermind, 12 years ago? Haha.
2020-09-30 22:07:05 <maerwald> It's still in deprecation phase
2020-09-30 22:07:28 → urdh joins (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh)
2020-09-30 22:07:33 <sm[m]> heebo: stack vs cabal is still at least as big a division as before. stack still is better at some things but cabal is now also better at some things
2020-09-30 22:07:43 <sm[m]> so you're fine using the one you prefer
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