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2020-09-30 20:28:37 <nobody239419341> I can imagine
2020-09-30 20:28:40 → _ashbreeze_ joins (~mark@72-161-254-200.dyn.centurytel.net)
2020-09-30 20:28:42 <Cheery> or reverse x == x
2020-09-30 20:28:46 <monochrom> No, nobody239419341's explanation.
2020-09-30 20:29:10 <Cheery> btw.. on functors of.. not functions but partially applied functions.
2020-09-30 20:29:30 <Cheery> djinn finds a value for a type.
2020-09-30 20:29:37 <Cheery> @djinn (a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b)
2020-09-30 20:29:37 <lambdabot> f a b c = a (b c)
2020-09-30 20:30:04 <monochrom> See, in the first place, I am against tackling >>= at a beginner stage in the first stage, especially for a palindrome exercise that can be done in 10 different elementary ways already.
2020-09-30 20:30:09 → mahene joins (~mahene@2a02:8109:86c0:8d68:5400:2bfd:d746:732c)
2020-09-30 20:30:23 <Cheery> yup. but he asked for it. :)
2020-09-30 20:30:36 <monochrom> I have no idea why you people decided to entertain this request and get into such a rabbit hole.
2020-09-30 20:30:38 <Cheery> and I guess this is helpful to see.. how this comes up together.
2020-09-30 20:30:55 <p0a> I think it's a show-off really, to write a palindrome like that
2020-09-30 20:31:10 <nobody239419341> I'm just stuck in a loop for creating recursive functions and exercises for two months
2020-09-30 20:31:20 <monochrom> It takes like 2-4 weeks of preparations before >>= makes sense for this exercise. Not 2 hours.
2020-09-30 20:31:23 <nobody239419341> I can't get progress without having eaten some parts of the FP
2020-09-30 20:31:53 <p0a> nobody239419341: In my opinion it's better to start with `Maybe' and `IO'
2020-09-30 20:31:59 <Cheery> :t (.)
2020-09-30 20:32:00 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
2020-09-30 20:32:16 <p0a> Write programs that do simple tasks but require some checking of values. You'll have to be using Maybe and IO for that
2020-09-30 20:32:16 × mu__ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 20:32:22 <nobody239419341> I see maybe as like a box
2020-09-30 20:32:35 <Cheery> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/src/GHC.Base.html#line-969
2020-09-30 20:32:37 × kindaro quits (1f08d381@h31-8-211-129.dyn.bashtel.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-30 20:32:42 <Cheery> there reads.. fmap = (.)
2020-09-30 20:32:43 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 20:32:57 hackage error-or 0.1.0.0 - Composable, hierarchical errors. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/error-or-0.1.0.0 (luntain)
2020-09-30 20:33:08 <xsperry> cheers fmap is (.) for function functor
2020-09-30 20:33:14 <xsperry> Cheery*
2020-09-30 20:33:21 <p0a> nobody239419341: Write a program that keeps an address book and looks up a name in it, allows you to modify a record and save/load records from a file
2020-09-30 20:33:27 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:33:32 <monochrom> Well, I stuck my students in a loop for creating recursive functions and exercises for two months. And only then they are ready for >>=
2020-09-30 20:34:05 <monochrom> People really don't realize the effect and benefits of "repetitive" immersion.
2020-09-30 20:34:28 <xsperry> Cheery, for list (for example), it is just map
2020-09-30 20:35:56 <tomsmeding> @tell kindaro here is something: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/WWaRcppB
2020-09-30 20:35:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
2020-09-30 20:36:35 <nobody239419341> okay guys thank you all for the suggestions. I'll keep doing exercises and try out that address book application
2020-09-30 20:37:07 <Cheery> nobody239419341: np. I hope it helped. It's just a fancy trick and nothing wrong with those, but it involves understanding this kind of things.
2020-09-30 20:37:42 × ryansmccoy quits (~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:37:58 <Cheery> at some context the idea of (->) a as a monad, does make sense.
2020-09-30 20:38:09 → ryansmccoy joins (~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132)
2020-09-30 20:38:51 × mahene quits (~mahene@2a02:8109:86c0:8d68:5400:2bfd:d746:732c) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:39:21 <monochrom> Well first thing you have to embrace that "X->Y" is "((->) X) Y" and the shock that the "(->) X" part can be isolated out as a standalone thing.
2020-09-30 20:39:38 <monochrom> That alone probably takes a week to absorb already.
2020-09-30 20:39:50 <p0a> Why is X->Y parsed like that?
2020-09-30 20:39:57 <p0a> is 1 + 2 also the same?
2020-09-30 20:40:00 <Cheery> for instance, a program requires an additional parameter, but it's not used too often, you might supply it as last parameter and form a monad around it.
2020-09-30 20:40:01 <monochrom> Yes.
2020-09-30 20:40:04 × nobody239419341 quits (5e7be5a0@94.123.229.160) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-30 20:40:15 <monochrom> See? So much prerequisites.
2020-09-30 20:40:36 <Rembane> > (+) 1 2
2020-09-30 20:40:39 <lambdabot> 3
2020-09-30 20:40:40 × mirrorbird quits (~psutcliff@m83-187-182-226.cust.tele2.se) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-30 20:40:48 <monochrom> But you're confusing the term level and the type level.
2020-09-30 20:41:01 <p0a> Right, okay. Because I was thinking of - now
2020-09-30 20:41:26 <p0a> I'm just confused, ignore me
2020-09-30 20:42:12 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 20:42:28 <p0a> I'm impressed at how quickly I was able to whip together a simple file database program that helps me keep track of my books and notes
2020-09-30 20:42:42 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 20:42:42 <p0a> took me 2 days of maybe 30 minutes each (well thanks to this channel as well)
2020-09-30 20:44:13 <sm[m]> p0a: nice!
2020-09-30 20:45:06 × madjestic quits (~madjestic@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:46:57 × Raito_Bezarius quits (~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:46:58 × coot quits (~coot@37.30.59.214.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-09-30 20:47:12 <Cheery> about that.. I'm thinking of a little project.. I start looking what kind of html/tagsoup functionality my blog driver would require to be written in haskell
2020-09-30 20:47:51 <p0a> sm[m]: thank you :) I agree
2020-09-30 20:48:00 <p0a> I'll share it here once it's looking good
2020-09-30 20:48:05 × takuan quits (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-30 20:48:27 × motersen quits (~user@2001-4dd1-ce19-0-41b8-8f35-edf5-ff23.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:49:47 → mirrorbird joins (~psutcliff@2a00:801:3fb:53b9:b09b:cd4e:4e4a:44a9)
2020-09-30 20:51:32 → mnrmnaugh joins (~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2020-09-30 20:52:16 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 20:52:46 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 20:54:29 <Cheery> aside just going to google each function, is there a page dedicated to giving haskell equivalents for os.walk, os.path.join, etc... ?
2020-09-30 20:54:33 <sm[m]> I think there's a lot of speed-of-development and power in haskell & libs, just waiting for a bit more refinement/curation/tooling to come together
2020-09-30 20:55:02 <sm[m]> not yet tapped, I mean
2020-09-30 20:55:07 <Rembane> Cheery: System.Directory, System.Environment, hm... and more! :D
2020-09-30 20:55:38 <Rembane> Cheery: If you happen to know the C stdlib, the functions are named almost the same in Haskell, but they are slightly more sane.
2020-09-30 20:56:00 <Cheery> I'd also like about a function that gives current date, and some datetime handling.
2020-09-30 20:56:01 × xcmw quits (~textual@dyn-72-33-0-89.uwnet.wisc.edu) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-30 20:56:03 → artotrie joins (~private@2604:2000:1540:4121:c018:ab87:8515:a83a)
2020-09-30 20:56:14 <aldessa> I'd like to learn numerical methods. I hear Haskell is a bad language to do it in, is this true if I'm using unboxed mutable arrays in the ST monad?
2020-09-30 20:56:31 <Rembane> Cheery: That's trickier
2020-09-30 20:56:53 <Rembane> aldessa: It depends, if you can work with slow numerical methods it's alright
2020-09-30 20:57:07 × _ashbreeze_ quits (~mark@72-161-254-200.dyn.centurytel.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-30 20:57:47 <aldessa> why is it slow Rembane? i thought Haskell was slower because of garbage collection; does the ST monad not avoid that?
2020-09-30 20:59:00 <Rembane> aldessa: Laziness has a tendency to bite if not properly contained and Haskell is slower than Fortran for such things.
2020-09-30 20:59:01 → _ashbreeze_ joins (~mark@72-161-254-200.dyn.centurytel.net)
2020-09-30 20:59:02 ← artotrie parts (~private@2604:2000:1540:4121:c018:ab87:8515:a83a) ("Leaving")
2020-09-30 20:59:20 <Rembane> Cheery: I used thyme for that, but I think it's needlessly complicated.
2020-09-30 21:00:01 × patryk_ quits (~patryk_@84.39.117.57) ()
2020-09-30 21:00:03 → Raito_Bezarius joins (~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-30 21:00:11 → bitmagie joins (~Thunderbi@200116b806af9800a5686823a67cc6e9.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-30 21:01:16 <monochrom> unboxed mutable array likely kills most of the laziness.
2020-09-30 21:02:19 <xsperry> Cheery, also System.FilePath, and for dates there's time package
2020-09-30 21:02:19 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-30 21:02:42 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-30 21:02:46 <monochrom> But it still stands to reason to re-use existing C-bound numerical libraries like LAPACK because they are both well-tuned and well-tested over the years.
2020-09-30 21:02:47 <Cale> Slow is relative -- people do all kinds of numerical stuff in Python, so no doubt Haskell is an option for a lot of applications.
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