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Logs: freenode/#haskell

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2021-03-20 23:50:01 → MarcelineVQ joins (~anja@198.254.208.159)
2021-03-20 23:50:07 <e> mniip: yeah
2021-03-20 23:50:38 × codygman` quits (~user@47.186.207.161) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 23:50:50 <ski> mniip : in a sense, brackets are already a (blessed) way of putting transitivity aside
2021-03-20 23:51:02 → codygman` joins (~user@47.186.207.161)
2021-03-20 23:51:03 <mniip> brackets are the reverse kind of
2021-03-20 23:51:11 <mniip> it's like you're in a derived category
2021-03-20 23:51:31 <ski> glguy : yes, please
2021-03-20 23:51:51 <glguy> How far back to I have to read to see the original idea/question? :)
2021-03-20 23:51:58 <e> what happens when you mix disconnect precedence levels?
2021-03-20 23:52:13 <mniip> glguy, my issue is that parentheses are circumfix notation and require a lot of eye travel and edit distance
2021-03-20 23:52:27 <glguy> mniip, if things get hard to read you name things
2021-03-20 23:52:38 <mniip> cope
2021-03-20 23:52:38 <e> names are for the weak
2021-03-20 23:53:10 <glguy> e, you use parentheses to be explicit when the implicitness of precedences isn't available due to them being disjoint for any particular pair of operators
2021-03-20 23:53:17 <monochrom> Time to admit that serialized linear stream of ASCII bytes fails to preserve even the static, lexical structure of a program.
2021-03-20 23:53:41 <e> so far everything else does it worse
2021-03-20 23:53:52 <mniip> formal systems weren't supposed to be based on lists of symbols
2021-03-20 23:53:56 <mniip> they're trees!
2021-03-20 23:54:11 <glguy> e, like I'd prefer that bit-wise and arithemtic operators were simply incomparable and you had to use parentheses to mix them, or name stuff
2021-03-20 23:54:13 <mniip> but mathematicians are too fixated on natural numbers to see other, equally valid inductive constructions
2021-03-20 23:54:36 <mniip> glguy, also disconnect arithmetic and control flow operators
2021-03-20 23:54:49 <glguy> && being a control-flow operator?
2021-03-20 23:54:55 <mniip> I was thinking >>=
2021-03-20 23:54:57 <monochrom> True that. Mathematicians haven't even caught up to serialized linear stream of ASCII bytes.
2021-03-20 23:54:58 <glguy> ah, yeah, that too
2021-03-20 23:55:01 ski . o O ( "Precedences in Specifications and Implementations of Programming Languages" by Annika Aasa in 1991,1995 at <https://web.archive.org/web/20070701130745/http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~annika/plilp91.ps>,<https://web.archive.org/web/20070701130745/http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~annika/tcs95.ps> ; <https://web.archive.org/web/20070701130745/http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~annika/> )
2021-03-20 23:55:24 <mniip> monochrom, I mean there's Sigma^*
2021-03-20 23:55:35 <mniip> the set of words in alphabet Sigma
2021-03-20 23:55:46 <monochrom> I love it when Scott Aaronson made a joke about Gödel numbering.
2021-03-20 23:56:02 <mniip> somehow mathematically it makes more sense to consider it as a fibration over lengths
2021-03-20 23:56:09 <mniip> rather than the (obvious) inductive list
2021-03-20 23:56:23 <mniip> and with inductive lists you're one degree away from inductive trees
2021-03-20 23:57:15 → quinn joins (~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-20 23:57:47 <monochrom> Not exact wording but: "I have a math friend who was learning programming and needed to use an array. He hadn't learned that arrays were already provided. So he invented arrays himself: represent <a, b, c> by 2^a 3^b 5^c."
2021-03-20 23:58:10 × royal_screwup21 quits (52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
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2021-03-20 23:58:34 <slack1256> Nice
2021-03-20 23:58:42 <monochrom> (In the book Quantum Computing Since Democritus)
2021-03-20 23:58:49 <ski> should have used diagonals
2021-03-20 23:59:06 × perrier-jouet quits (~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-21 00:00:26 <monochrom> It's full of fun. When discussing free will: "My brain makes me say that I believe in free will. What choice do I have?"
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2021-03-21 00:03:35 <ski> hehe :)
2021-03-21 00:03:53 × dunj3 quits (~dunj3@2001:16b8:3058:3200:341d:cba6:b01f:d85d) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-03-21 00:08:34 <__minoru__shirae> maybe it's like an infinite list ...a,b,a,b...
2021-03-21 00:09:01 <__minoru__shirae> where a translates to "I made my brain to ..."
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2021-03-21 00:09:14 <__minoru__shirae> and b translates to "my brain made me ..."
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2021-03-21 00:10:10 <__minoru__shirae> so you have something like "I made my brain to make me say that I believe in free will"
2021-03-21 00:11:17 <__minoru__shirae> and if you go deeper you have "my brain made make my brain to make me say ..."
2021-03-21 00:11:38 ski . o O ( "Zhuangzi, butterfly and referential transparency" by Maria Kovalyova,Roman Cheplyaka in 2010-05-15 at <https://ro-che.info/ccc/9> )
2021-03-21 00:11:46 <monochrom> Yeah, that. :)
2021-03-21 00:12:22 → wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-21 00:12:46 ski . o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectification_of_names> )
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2021-03-21 00:19:25 <slack1256> https://ro-che.info/ccc/21 haha
2021-03-21 00:22:59 <monochrom> heh
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2021-03-21 00:26:05 <__minoru__shirae> ski: how is "rectification of names" related to the subject of infinite lists of propositions?
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2021-03-21 00:27:57 <ski> only very indirectly
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2021-03-21 00:43:00 <__minoru__shirae> ski: what is this indirect relation? idk, sounds like it has nothing to do with the subject of free will or infinite lists.
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2021-03-21 00:54:51 <ski> __minoru__shirae : being related to chinese culture. also being (slightly) related to earlier topics of length of identifiers, and of clearing up terminological and conceptual confusion
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