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2020-10-03 20:19:58 → mirrorbird joins (~psutcliff@2a00:801:42a:82eb:6edc:4c78:a574:2a8f)
2020-10-03 20:20:54 <koz_> Also, shouldn't that be ExceptT () IO Database?
2020-10-03 20:21:19 <Super_Feeling> new to haskell. what to do lol
2020-10-03 20:21:20 <ddellacosta> I thought FP completionist was some extremist camp of statically-typed FP programmers until I realized you were talking about the company
2020-10-03 20:21:35 <koz_> ddellacosta: Yeah, I guess I was a bit vague.
2020-10-03 20:21:35 <ddellacosta> Super_Feeling: what kind of help are you looking for?
2020-10-03 20:21:41 <dsal> Super_Feeling: learn it and then write all the code.
2020-10-03 20:21:45 <ddellacosta> koz_: it gave me a chuckle
2020-10-03 20:21:51 <koz_> ddellacosta: Happy to help!
2020-10-03 20:22:01 → elliott__ joins (~elliott@pool-108-18-30-116.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-10-03 20:22:56 <Super_Feeling> i have no fp experience. I did some elixir, but haskell has some good type checking i reckon
2020-10-03 20:23:16 <koz_> Super_Feeling: It'd help us help you if you told us what your goals are.
2020-10-03 20:23:20 <ddellacosta> Super_Feeling: have you gone through any learning materials? Are you looking for learning materials?
2020-10-03 20:23:25 <ddellacosta> ^ what koz_ said
2020-10-03 20:23:27 <koz_> Are you looking to write a killer webapp? A compiler? Some other thing?
2020-10-03 20:23:32 → conal joins (~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-03 20:23:42 <koz_> Or are you looking to learn how to set up a Haskell environment? How to use some library? Some other thing?
2020-10-03 20:24:01 <koz_> "I need All Of The Help" is a good way to attract attention, but not really constructive responses.
2020-10-03 20:24:58 <dsal> I'm trying to get tests running with haskell.nix. I'm not sure anybody knows how to actually use this thing. heh
2020-10-03 20:25:13 <Super_Feeling> haha I agree. I need something that can convince me on haskell, I've watched a bunch of youtube videos on FP and haskell but I want to know what exactly makes haskell so special, I know the features it offers but there's a philosophy around it and I don't understand it
2020-10-03 20:25:36 <koz_> I would say this is not a fruitful or useful line of inquiry.
2020-10-03 20:25:41 <dsal> There are a lot of things that can't be understood without experience.
2020-10-03 20:25:42 <koz_> We program to solve a problem or do a task.
2020-10-03 20:25:50 <koz_> What is _your_ problem or task?
2020-10-03 20:25:55 <ddellacosta> dsal: is that tweag's next-gen how-to-approach-haskell-in-nix thing?
2020-10-03 20:26:00 <koz_> Given this, we can give some pros (and cons) of Haskell.
2020-10-03 20:26:13 <koz_> In a vacuum, that discussion is fairly hard to ground in anything reasonable IMHO.
2020-10-03 20:26:28 <ddellacosta> Super_Feeling: yeah the big catch-22 with Haskell IMHO is that you really have to spend some time with it to appreciate what it provides, and how it's distinct from other languages
2020-10-03 20:26:36 <dsal> ddellacosta: I'm not actually sure who did it. It's really easy to get building in nix, but it builds all software by default. I *can* build the test suite and run it manually, but I feel like something's missing.
2020-10-03 20:26:48 <Super_Feeling> Okay, just for the sake of it. Let's pick up a killer webapp
2020-10-03 20:27:14 <ddellacosta> dsal: gotcha. Yeah I've only done ad-hoc nix stuff with Haskell, above and beyond Gabriel Gonzalez's nix stuff
2020-10-03 20:27:55 <koz_> Super_Feeling: If you wanna build a killer web app, I would argue Haskell gives you a _lot_ of tools to make this much more reasonable.
2020-10-03 20:28:07 <dsal> ddellacosta: I'm trying to figure out a good approach. I mostly use nixos because it's the best linux distribution for my needs. I'm hoping I find the magic that makes me like, not rebuild ghc and stuff.
2020-10-03 20:28:13 <Super_Feeling> yeah i saw ihp, was pretty sweet and comparable to rails/dj.
2020-10-03 20:28:43 <koz_> I'm not really a web person (others in this channel are way more qualified than me to describe these advantages to you), but I _have_ tried writing some web stuff in Haskell for my Real Job.
2020-10-03 20:28:58 <koz_> I am _purposefully_ ignorant about the toxic hell that is web.
2020-10-03 20:29:15 <koz_> I managed, with my Haskell knowledge, to write something inside of a day, that actually worked and wasn't absurdist.
2020-10-03 20:29:17 <ddellacosta> dsal: I've been wanting to check out bazel after reading this, sounds like it provides very nice behavior even in a nix context, as long as you're willing to slog through the configuration: https://blog.sumtypeofway.com/posts/bazel-haskell-build-system-joy.html
2020-10-03 20:29:23 <Super_Feeling> haha, even I'm tired of it but that's the area of my expertise lol
2020-10-03 20:29:42 <koz_> It's an anecdote, and possibly a vague one, but I _very_ much doubt that I could have done that in anything else and ended up with anything halfway sensible.
2020-10-03 20:29:50 <koz_> Largely, it was thanks to Haskell hand-holding me.
2020-10-03 20:30:17 <Super_Feeling> Let me take on an experiment and write an interpreter, maybe I'll learn a few new things
2020-10-03 20:31:08 <dsal> ddellacosta: I use a similar system at work. It's not exactly the build system I'm looking for, but trying to find that place where all the amazing development stuff people say about nix clicks. So far, it's great for user/system, but the development stuff is not amazing. I'm convinced it's because I don't know how to use things, though things are kind of poorly documented.
2020-10-03 20:31:22 × ericsagnes quits (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:7533:7086:5452:36ef) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:31:43 <ddellacosta> dsal: ah I see, yeah I think I got focused on your comment about not re-building GHC
2020-10-03 20:31:46 <dsal> Super_Feeling: writing parsers and evaluating languages in Haskell is entirely too easy.
2020-10-03 20:32:01 <dsal> ddellacosta: Yeah, the effort of getting starting with haskell.nix is nearly zero. But each build takes hours. :)
2020-10-03 20:32:09 <dsal> (well, each time *something* changes)
2020-10-03 20:32:16 <ddellacosta> what I've found nix really does that I appreciate in terms of spinning up build environments is just being able to configure my Haskell project and the associated dependencies with relative ease
2020-10-03 20:32:31 <ddellacosta> dsal: okay that in particular it sounds like bazel helps with at least
2020-10-03 20:32:36 → GyroW_ joins (~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-03 20:32:37 × GyroW_ quits (~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-03 20:32:37 → GyroW_ joins (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-03 20:33:07 <dsal> cachix allegedly helps. I just keep managing to have cache misses.
2020-10-03 20:33:15 <ddellacosta> ah
2020-10-03 20:33:18 <Super_Feeling> not for me, i've never written a parser
2020-10-03 20:33:23 × GyroW quits (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:33:54 <ddellacosta> Super_Feeling: I don't know exactly where you're at in your Haskell journey but I'm fond of this tutorial, and I recommend megaparsec to folks: https://markkarpov.com/tutorial/megaparsec.html
2020-10-03 20:33:57 <dsal> Super_Feeling: Writing parsers is unfortunate pain in most languages.
2020-10-03 20:34:14 <ddellacosta> gives a good overview of the landscape too
2020-10-03 20:34:21 <Zetagon> Super_Feeling: https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html this is a great intro to haskell and concludes in writing a parser
2020-10-03 20:34:46 <ddellacosta> oh yeah that's good stuff too
2020-10-03 20:35:04 <Super_Feeling> sounds good. I never expected this irc to be so receptive. thanks guys.
2020-10-03 20:35:22 <ddellacosta> the link I gave is going to be more useful if you're already somewhat comfortable in Haskell, whereas I'd recommend Zetagon's link if you are starting more "from scratch"
2020-10-03 20:35:25 <ddellacosta> good luck!
2020-10-03 20:35:49 × Super_Feeling quits (~Super_Fee@103.92.42.154) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-03 20:37:15 <dsal> ugh, this demo project about how awesome nix is for haskell has a cabal file, four .nix files, a Makefile, and possibly more stuff. The thing I like about stack is that I almost never edit anything but my source. I guess these tools are better for people who work on few projects.
2020-10-03 20:38:54 <dsal> My github CI stuff broke, so I'm trying a different recipe I found somewhere and it's been running for an hour and a half now (building ghc)
2020-10-03 20:39:36 <ddellacosta> yikes that sucks
2020-10-03 20:40:02 × oisdk quits (~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:d17f:3343:5407:5673) (Quit: oisdk)
2020-10-03 20:41:05 × elliott__ quits (~elliott@pool-108-18-30-116.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:42:44 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-03 20:42:52 <dsal> I got it all figured out and threw it into a bunch of projects, and then one day they all started failing. It looks like it's jle's setup-stack thing which both doesn't work and is no longer needed. Guess I edit all the yamls. h eh
2020-10-03 20:43:18 → ericsagnes joins (~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:80c3:1766:ef39:bb4c)
2020-10-03 20:46:20 <ddellacosta> dsal: good luck 😬
2020-10-03 20:46:45 × conal quits (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:47:23 × avdb quits (~avdb@ip-83-134-26-4.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:47:30 × ggole quits (~ggole@2001:8003:8119:7200:d175:a532:be60:ae73) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-03 20:47:36 × sand_dull quits (~theuser@cpe-67-252-1-237.nycap.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-03 20:49:25 → conal joins (~conal@66.115.157.94)
2020-10-03 20:51:33 × Zetagon quits (~leo@c151-177-52-233.bredband.comhem.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-03 20:55:34 × hiroaki quits (~hiroaki@ip4d176049.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-03 20:57:02 × knupfer quits (~Thunderbi@200116b82c95f60035804b3f286051fa.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-03 21:00:01 × Jamalaka quits (~Jamalaka@178.162.209.171) ()
2020-10-03 21:00:28 × ym555 quits (~ym@156.199.76.92) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-03 21:00:58 hackage bizzlelude 1.7.0 - A lousy Prelude replacement by a lousy dude https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bizzlelude-1.7.0 (TheBizzle)
2020-10-03 21:01:40 → ym555 joins (~ym@156.199.199.58)
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2020-10-03 21:09:51 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@45.78.189.122) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-03 21:11:38 → madjestic joins (~madjestic@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net)
2020-10-03 21:11:55 × ym555 quits (~ym@156.199.199.58) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-03 21:15:12 → mitchellsalad joins (uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yibkddeecqmzocfr)
2020-10-03 21:15:51 → ym555 joins (~ym@41.42.203.37)
2020-10-03 21:16:37 <dsal> Someone needs marketing help.
2020-10-03 21:17:32 <hpc> yeah, it's hard to differentiate a prelude replacement just by being lousy :P
2020-10-03 21:17:50 <Rembane> Or some help to handle the pressure you get by releasing something that people rely on
2020-10-03 21:18:58 → aarvar joins (~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
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