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2020-09-29 16:49:06 × alp quits (~alp@88.126.45.36) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-29 16:49:24 <ski> Guest18 : very roughly, you could imagine something like `struct maybe_int { enum {NOTHING,JUST} tag; union { struct {} n; struct { int n; } j; } u; };'
2020-09-29 16:49:27 <maerwald> I think this might be the only student passing the exam :)
2020-09-29 16:49:32 → alp joins (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:c58c:601c:cb46:bf0c)
2020-09-29 16:49:46 <maerwald> (the others left after they figured out how to install GHC)
2020-09-29 16:49:59 <ski> (but this ignores lots of things, is just meant to get a general idea for how you could simulate something a bit akin to `Maybe Int', in C)
2020-09-29 16:50:39 <monochrom> With great trouble.
2020-09-29 16:50:41 <dolio> EvanR: Oh, by the way, I thought of some other 'not correct' stuff that probably makes sense in SDG. All those weird differential operators that get used in e.g. Maxwell's equations, where in classical math you have to explain it as 'just a notation' probably actually make sense. Like the gradient is actually a vector-like thing, and you can use the dot product to get the divergence, and it all makes sense. At least, I think that's the kind of thing
2020-09-29 16:50:42 <dolio> you get out of it (I have very little understanding of SDG).
2020-09-29 16:50:44 <[exa]> ( ...did I miss a surge of new questions about haskell language server? )
2020-09-29 16:51:08 × o1lo01ol1o quits (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-29 16:51:16 <ski> [exa] : recently there's been a bit of people having basic trouble with how to install GHC
2020-09-29 16:51:35 → o1lo01ol1o joins (~o1lo01ol1@bl8-213-81.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-29 16:51:35 <[exa]> good
2020-09-29 16:51:40 → nbloomf joins (~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:c9ce:dada:6b56:fcbb)
2020-09-29 16:51:42 <[exa]> I'm going to contribute a few tomorrow. :]
2020-09-29 16:51:48 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-29 16:52:04 <maerwald> I already have PATH-burnout
2020-09-29 16:52:12 <ski> Guest18 : does that help ?
2020-09-29 16:52:26 <[exa]> oh this.
2020-09-29 16:52:32 → nineonine joins (~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-09-29 16:52:41 <monochrom> ski and Guest18: Could I talk you into replacing C by Rust as your reference point? Because Rust matches so much better to Haskell in this regard.
2020-09-29 16:52:53 <[exa]> I should put this to slides explicitly
2020-09-29 16:53:23 <ski> mm, the other day, we helped someone to add stuff to `.bashrc' and `.bash_profile' (after telling how to create the first one, which was non-existant)
2020-09-29 16:53:24 <Guest18> ski: it does. Do you recommend going into the RTS to see some of this in action? I am quite curious
2020-09-29 16:53:49 <ski> monochrom : i'd love to, but less people tend to be familiar with it :)
2020-09-29 16:53:57 × thir quits (~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-29 16:54:01 <monochrom> maerwald: There is an alternative. If you don't support Mac... >:)
2020-09-29 16:54:10 <[exa]> monochrom: doesn't it kinda lead to question "how's that implemented in rust?"
2020-09-29 16:54:28 <Guest18> monochrom: i for one can read simple rust, but never programmed with it
2020-09-29 16:54:32 <monochrom> Yes for some people, no for some people.
2020-09-29 16:54:40 <Guest18> and i think many people have the same problem
2020-09-29 16:54:43 <[exa]> anyway thanks for pointing out the install problem, I just realized that my slides don't match reality anymore, at all
2020-09-29 16:54:45 <maerwald> monochrom: I hope the next haskell survey will give better insights about the user distribution of ghcup
2020-09-29 16:56:02 <monochrom> Notice how, for example, most javascript programmers never ask how are javascript features implemented, how are web browsers implemented in the first place.
2020-09-29 16:56:22 × chele quits (~chele@ip5b416ea2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-29 16:56:32 <zincy_> monochrom: Yes!
2020-09-29 16:56:36 × Saukk quits (~Saukk@2001:998:f1:3966:96a6:dee2:2e9:fdf3) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-29 16:56:44 <[exa]> monochrom: they learnt to fear the browser!
2020-09-29 16:57:02 <dolio> JavaScript is the fundamental language of the universe.
2020-09-29 16:57:12 <[exa]> ("learnt" isn't english, is it...)
2020-09-29 16:57:13 × nineonine quits (~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-29 16:57:22 <ski> [exa] : if you look for "xcode" in scroll-back, you should see one such conversation, a few hours ago
2020-09-29 16:57:24 <geekosaur> british english
2020-09-29 16:57:27 <monochrom> It is. Both learnt and learned are legal.
2020-09-29 16:57:45 <Guest18> monochrom: the problem with those is that they chose the easy route, it's all about making a living, but beyond that, i don't think they care if it doesn't affect them
2020-09-29 16:57:45 <[exa]> o nice
2020-09-29 16:57:50 → mu_ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-29 16:57:51 <[exa]> ski: thanks!
2020-09-29 16:57:53 <Cheery> I just wrote a lazy lambda calculus interpreter in RPython.
2020-09-29 16:58:01 <monochrom> Recommendation: Every time, toss a coin to decide whether you use learnt or learned :)
2020-09-29 16:58:35 → Saten-san joins (~Saten-san@ip-213-49-123-190.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-09-29 16:58:49 <ski> [exa] : and there was someone that we helped with `.bashrc' and `.bash_profile' (on Mac), maybe yesterday, or the day before (you could check the TUNES logs, if it's fallen off the far end of your buffer)
2020-09-29 16:59:18 <ski> monochrom : ooh, is that what the learnt ones do ?
2020-09-29 16:59:27 <monochrom> haha
2020-09-29 16:59:29 <[exa]> I see it in the backlog (it's nicely marked by a flood of ghcup install logs :D )
2020-09-29 16:59:46 <monochrom> Nah, learnt people don't troll like that.
2020-09-29 17:00:24 <Guest18> [exa] Do you do any embedded by any chance?
2020-09-29 17:00:26 <maerwald> [exa]: yeah, we saw it coming a mile away
2020-09-29 17:00:32 <zincy_> And then you have those lovely people who take javascript out of the browser and write their servers in it!
2020-09-29 17:00:54 <zincy_> Keep the monster in the box
2020-09-29 17:01:05 <ski> Guest18 : iirc, there's some STG paper that people seems to be suggesting. but i think it's probably more useful to first get a bit more comfortable with the language
2020-09-29 17:01:22 <[exa]> Guest18: embedded? as in programming for embedded platforms?
2020-09-29 17:01:32 <Guest18> Any chance we could convert js devs to OCaml?
2020-09-29 17:01:35 <Guest18> [exa]: yes
2020-09-29 17:01:41 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-29 17:01:43 × elliott_ quits (~elliott_@pool-100-36-54-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:01:49 <zincy_> Guest18: They tried that with Reasonml
2020-09-29 17:01:52 → mirrorbird joins (~psutcliff@2a00:801:3fb:53b9:b09b:cd4e:4e4a:44a9)
2020-09-29 17:02:00 <zincy_> But it was too hard to learn of course
2020-09-29 17:02:03 <zincy_> Because. Types.
2020-09-29 17:02:16 <monochrom> I am against converting people.
2020-09-29 17:02:28 <zincy_> haha
2020-09-29 17:02:39 <[exa]> Guest18: I'm also teaching C/C++ and generally work towards the "restricted&efficient" systems but usually not for the small-platform-ish reasons
2020-09-29 17:03:03 <dolio> It's too hard to get your variable scoping errors at compile time.
2020-09-29 17:03:28 <Guest18> Oh, cool, I taught C++ as well. As in, not anymore
2020-09-29 17:03:40 <[exa]> some of the JS people kindof don't believe the mistake until it really happens
2020-09-29 17:03:51 <zincy_> dolio: And scary!
2020-09-29 17:04:01 <zincy_> Imagine seeing all those problems at once
2020-09-29 17:04:04 → elliott_ joins (~elliott_@pool-100-36-54-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-29 17:04:11 <Guest18> Although, probably in this group, that's not much of an achievement
2020-09-29 17:04:18 → nineonine joins (~nineonine@216.81.48.202)
2020-09-29 17:06:09 → lucid_0x80 joins (~lucid_0x8@188.253.231.113)
2020-09-29 17:06:27 → GyroW joins (~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-09-29 17:06:27 × GyroW quits (~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-09-29 17:06:27 → GyroW joins (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-09-29 17:07:03 × mu_ quits (~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-29 17:07:07 × xff0x quits (~fox@2001:1a81:53b0:3c00:65ac:b49c:d7d6:af9b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-29 17:07:08 → mu__ joins (~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-29 17:07:11 koz is now known as koz_
2020-09-29 17:08:35 <maerwald> you can conver js devs to elm
2020-09-29 17:09:10 <[exa]> "but does it run react?"
2020-09-29 17:10:17 <maerwald> I'm already happy TypeScript exists, although the type system isn't entirely sound
2020-09-29 17:10:56 → xff0x joins (~fox@2001:1a81:53b0:3c00:65ac:b49c:d7d6:af9b)
2020-09-29 17:11:09 <aldum> you know, compared to what ; next JS it's splendid
2020-09-29 17:11:27 <monochrom> Hey maerwald, I'm wondering if https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.0.1-alpha1/docs/html/users_guide/9.0.1-notes.html#base-library solves your ByteString space troubles.
2020-09-29 17:11:50 <monochrom> This is on GHC 9.0.1 alpha1
2020-09-29 17:12:15 <maerwald> aldum: https://github.com/microsoft/TypeScript/issues/18770
2020-09-29 17:13:17 <maerwald> const array1: (number | string)[] = []; const array2: number[] = array1; array1.push("gotcha");
2020-09-29 17:13:19 <maerwald> heh
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