Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2020-11-11 18:06:54 | × | evanjs quits (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2020-11-11 18:07:34 | <p0a> | what does {..} mean? |
| 2020-11-11 18:07:43 | <p0a> | I see stuff like `return Authority {..}' |
| 2020-11-11 18:07:51 | <dminuoso> | p0a: RecordWildCards |
| 2020-11-11 18:08:02 | <dminuoso> | It's the sane and useful part of that extension. |
| 2020-11-11 18:08:09 | <p0a> | alright |
| 2020-11-11 18:08:31 | <dminuoso> | (The not-so-useful part is when you use {..} for pattern matching, as in `f (Foo{..}) = ...` |
| 2020-11-11 18:08:34 | → | evanjs joins (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2020-11-11 18:08:59 | <p0a> | I am not sure about that, I understand what {..} does now though |
| 2020-11-11 18:09:17 | <monochrom> | Why is that not so useful? |
| 2020-11-11 18:09:46 | → | adm joins (~adm@43.229.89.44) |
| 2020-11-11 18:10:03 | <dminuoso> | It can create subtle to find bugs |
| 2020-11-11 18:10:08 | × | neiluj quits (~jco@24.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2020-11-11 18:10:20 | <dminuoso> | It invisibly introduced identifiers that can shadow other things. |
| 2020-11-11 18:10:24 | → | neiluj joins (~jco@24.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2020-11-11 18:10:46 | <dminuoso> | NamedFieldPuns is a safer, albeit slightly more verbose, alternative |
| 2020-11-11 18:11:16 | <koz_> | I agree on the 'subtle to find bugs' definitely. I've been bitten by this a lot. |
| 2020-11-11 18:11:19 | × | invaser quits (~Thunderbi@128-124-107-154.mobile.vf-ua.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2020-11-11 18:11:21 | → | wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2020-11-11 18:11:29 | → | invaser joins (~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) |
| 2020-11-11 18:12:14 | → | byorgey joins (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) |
| 2020-11-11 18:13:11 | <dminuoso> | RecordWildCards on expression otoh is quite handy, especially for larger records. In the setting of parsers, `Foo <$> parseA <*> parseB <*> parseC` can easily lead to mistakes, especially if there's a lot of fields |
| 2020-11-11 18:13:28 | <dminuoso> | (You could accidentally switch parseB and parseC for example, without noticing if the types line up) |
| 2020-11-11 18:13:45 | <dminuoso> | It also gets increasingly difficult identifying which fragment corresponds to what field |
| 2020-11-11 18:14:12 | <monochrom> | That one I know and agree. |
| 2020-11-11 18:14:28 | <dminuoso> | if you hoever used (possibly Applicative-) do expressions `do { fA <- parseA; fB <- parseB; fC <- fieldC; pure Foo{..} }` it makes it more explicit without sacrificing too much extra typing |
| 2020-11-11 18:14:30 | × | adm quits (~adm@43.229.89.44) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2020-11-11 18:14:48 | → | boxscape joins (54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) |
| 2020-11-11 18:15:49 | <dminuoso> | Amusingly, I sometimes accidentally write `Foo{..}` in a pattern instead of `Foo{}`. Since I often have RecordWildCards enabled for the above mentioned use case, that has hidden a nasty bug before. |
| 2020-11-11 18:16:13 | <dminuoso> | muscle memory can be an annoying thing :) |
| 2020-11-11 18:16:54 | <monochrom> | I have been writing a fair amount of Scheme lately. |
| 2020-11-11 18:17:14 | <dminuoso> | Curious, what's the reason? |
| 2020-11-11 18:17:14 | <monochrom> | Then I went to write some for loops in C. I started "(for i=0;" |
| 2020-11-11 18:17:25 | <monochrom> | "wait, that doesn't look right" |
| 2020-11-11 18:17:40 | <dminuoso> | heh |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:00 | <p0a> | why do you write Scheme if you know Haskell? |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:25 | <monochrom> | I am a substitute teacher for a course that uses Scheme. |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:27 | dminuoso | bets is a Scheme course |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:32 | dminuoso | was right |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:34 | <p0a> | Alright lol |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:53 | <monochrom> | Don't worry, there will be Haskell. |
| 2020-11-11 18:18:57 | <p0a> | hehe |
| 2020-11-11 18:19:01 | <monochrom> | THERE WILL BE BLOOD |
| 2020-11-11 18:19:10 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: So out of curiosity. Do you have previous Scheme experience? |
| 2020-11-11 18:19:12 | <p0a> | make a u-turn on the last week before finals |
| 2020-11-11 18:19:17 | <monochrom> | yes |
| 2020-11-11 18:19:48 | <dminuoso> | From substituting Scheme courses? ;p |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:18 | × | teardown_ quits (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:21 | <monochrom> | Not just that. A few years ago, my course had both Scheme and Haskell too. |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:37 | → | teardown joins (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush) |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:42 | <dminuoso> | Do you get to decide what's in your course, or how does that even work? |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:56 | <dminuoso> | Is there a board that decides on what's on course? |
| 2020-11-11 18:20:57 | <monochrom> | But I'm too annoyed at eager evaluation and uncurrying, so I dropped it. |
| 2020-11-11 18:21:32 | <p0a> | When I substitute taught |
| 2020-11-11 18:21:42 | <monochrom> | For better or worse, there is no board for this, I have liberty to add or drop topics at a whim. |
| 2020-11-11 18:21:43 | <p0a> | I realized that nobody is checking on me, so yeah, you can teach whatever you want |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:06 | <dminuoso> | So the students are truly at your merci |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:12 | <dminuoso> | Or.. mercy. |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:31 | <dminuoso> | Guess that |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:38 | <dminuoso> | Guess that's how Darth Vader must feel. |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:52 | <monochrom> | Although, if I am the intended instructor right on the first day, I have no guilt choosing my favourite topics; but if I'm a substitute teacher stepping in in the middle, I've got to honour the original intention of the original teacher. |
| 2020-11-11 18:22:59 | <dminuoso> | Except, and that's as far as I can tell, he doesn't do functional programming. |
| 2020-11-11 18:23:14 | <dminuoso> | That makes sense |
| 2020-11-11 18:23:20 | × | christo quits (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2020-11-11 18:23:35 | <p0a> | I ironically had more freedom instructing as a TA |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:02 | × | Kaivo quits (~Kaivo@ec2-15-222-231-32.ca-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:03 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: So that begs the question, if you have complete autonomy, what exactly is in your job description? |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:17 | → | christo joins (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:22 | <dminuoso> | "Teaching what you like, when you like it to whomever you like"? |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:26 | <p0a> | when you're a teacher you have to follow the syllabus (especially if the course is split among many teachers) |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:35 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:42 | <dminuoso> | Or are you at least expected to deliver something compsci related? |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:42 | <p0a> | Also student expectation is that you _will_ go on board and copy notes from the book |
| 2020-11-11 18:24:48 | <p0a> | It can't be otherwise |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:05 | <monochrom> | It goes like "develop course material, deliver lectures, admin duties" |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:13 | × | boxscape quits (54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:16 | → | alp joins (~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:2925:3e55:7d36:aa14) |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:48 | <dminuoso> | So you could teach about the various ways of cooking fish and get away with it? |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:56 | <p0a> | Not without tenure dminuoso |
| 2020-11-11 18:25:57 | <dminuoso> | As long as you produce course material for it? |
| 2020-11-11 18:26:17 | <p0a> | The trick is that there's nobody that can really evaluate you dminuoso you're literally the top head |
| 2020-11-11 18:26:49 | <p0a> | Those above you have a very vague idea on the subject |
| 2020-11-11 18:27:19 | <tomsmeding> | on... normal schools, I believe, there's this thing variously called "learning outcomes" that are stipulated beforehand and are to be followed by the teacher |
| 2020-11-11 18:27:38 | <p0a> | yeah but those metrics are largely irrelevant |
| 2020-11-11 18:27:41 | <tomsmeding> | though maybe that's a fancy coming from places where there are actually multiple people teaching the same course |
| 2020-11-11 18:27:49 | <dminuoso> | You mean the curriculum? |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:05 | <p0a> | I think he means the tests that students take |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:07 | <tomsmeding> | I guess, though people also use that word for something on a higher level |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:10 | <tomsmeding> | no! |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:13 | <tomsmeding> | I do not mean the tests |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:30 | <tomsmeding> | the test is derived from the learning outcomes |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:31 | <koz_> | tomsmeding: In my entire experience as a TA in a place with 'learning outcomes', over damn near a decade, I met literally _one_ person who actually followed them. |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:35 | <p0a> | The curicculum is just cargo cult nonsense |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:36 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Well, my girlfriend at least has to follow the federal curriculum |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:38 | × | neiluj quits (~jco@24.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:41 | <monochrom> | Strangely enough I think they don't have very strong and clear language about course content, maybe only weak language; instead, it's the hiring qualification that clearly insists "must have experience in this course". |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:42 | <dminuoso> | So her syllabus has to fit inside that |
| 2020-11-11 18:28:55 | → | neiluj joins (~jco@24.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2020-11-11 18:29:02 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: I see, you should become a hobby cook then. |
| 2020-11-11 18:29:06 | <dminuoso> | :) |
All times are in UTC.