Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-05-06 21:04:32 | <sm[m]> | if you're going to focus on worst case... I'm interested in ways to make things a little better |
| 2021-05-06 21:04:36 | <nshepperd> | i think I'd want to know what stopped the people asking here from googling "haskell", clicking "documentation" then going down the list |
| 2021-05-06 21:04:52 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: I'd much rather leave the decision of what to include to the documentation task force |
| 2021-05-06 21:05:03 | → | catern joins (~sbaugh@2604:2000:8fc0:b:a9c7:866a:bf36:3407) |
| 2021-05-06 21:05:05 | <maerwald> | dictatorship is usually better than democracy |
| 2021-05-06 21:05:27 | <maerwald> | (I guess you could say that's controversial too) |
| 2021-05-06 21:06:12 | <sm[m]> | maerwald: that'd be cool if they are up to it, do we have a DTF with that much capacity ? I think not yet or it would have happened |
| 2021-05-06 21:06:38 | <maerwald> | Uniaika may have been swept away by GHC CI issues |
| 2021-05-06 21:07:06 | <nshepperd> | making a new list somewhere else may not help at all depending on what the exact problem is |
| 2021-05-06 21:07:25 | <sm[m]> | probably Haskell Foundation has some discussions going on about this right now |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:08 | → | glowpelt joins (~myst@focks.pw) |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:23 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: yeah, maybe they got everything sorted out |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:32 | glowpelt | is now known as Guest55803 |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:35 | maerwald | goes back drinking his beer |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:40 | × | seven_three quits (~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:45 | <juri_> | I think one primary thing we forget when trying to advise people on how to get 'into' haskell is who the person is, where they're coming from, etc. |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:49 | <nshepperd> | do people just not think to Google "haskell"? then maybe the ghc installer should print out a link to haskell.org/documentation |
| 2021-05-06 21:08:56 | → | seven_three joins (~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:09 | <nshepperd> | or maybe the word "documentation" doesn't sound sufficiently tutorial-like |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:15 | <maerwald> | nshepperd: yes, I also think the installer can direct ppl |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:22 | → | Feuermagier joins (~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:25 | <sm[m]> | nshepperd: no they don't, and we'll never persuade all of them to |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:25 | <juri_> | I come from a non-ordinary background, so it's easy for me to see. |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:26 | <maerwald> | nshepperd: but in my experience, ppl barely read the installer output |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:28 | <sm[m]> | Nor do they use a haskell installer |
| 2021-05-06 21:09:36 | <nshepperd> | it's maybe the list is too 'daunting' because there's too much in it |
| 2021-05-06 21:10:04 | <sm[m]> | As juri says they come from all over and have all kinds of backgrounds |
| 2021-05-06 21:10:07 | <maerwald> | if the installer says "Press ENTER if you want to DELETE ALL YOUR FILES", 80% of ppl will press enter |
| 2021-05-06 21:10:23 | <sm[m]> | and if they do find the Haskell site doc page yes they are daunted |
| 2021-05-06 21:10:53 | <juri_> | a set of docs can't help direct you to something at your level, or in an area you'll be inspired to work with. |
| 2021-05-06 21:10:59 | × | michalz quits (~user@185.246.204.43) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:11:15 | <sm[m]> | well it can a bit, if organized that way |
| 2021-05-06 21:11:18 | <maerwald> | for inspiration, you have to join IRC. |
| 2021-05-06 21:11:21 | → | jneira joins (4f9b01f9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.155.1.249) |
| 2021-05-06 21:11:27 | <maerwald> | docs can't deliver that |
| 2021-05-06 21:12:20 | <sm[m]> | juri_: "what's your current Haskell level ? Which ways do you like to learn ? Try these: ..." |
| 2021-05-06 21:12:26 | <juri_> | like, my professional math education stopped at "what you need to know to run a cash register at the corner store". I study a lot, but there will always be that 'curve' to my path, because that's what i started with. |
| 2021-05-06 21:12:46 | <juri_> | sm[m]: fair, and a good start. |
| 2021-05-06 21:13:41 | <Uniaika> | so uh, my eyes are currently failing me so I can't give proper attention to the backlog |
| 2021-05-06 21:13:41 | <seven_three> | my program has two fundamental functions. `f :: Integer -> Whatever`, and `f' :: BitVector -> Whatever`. I have found myself having two make two versions of every function to deal with the Integers versus BitVectors. Do you have any suggestions on how I can abstract this out? I could make `data IntOrBV = I Integer | BV BitVector` but this doesn't really solve the problem because I still have to deal with the two cases everywh |
| 2021-05-06 21:13:48 | <nshepperd> | what if people have just been trained never to Google things and to ask on reddit instead because the internet has too much spam? that's not a problem we can really solve |
| 2021-05-06 21:13:56 | <Uniaika> | if there is something I can do, please send me a query on IRC with specific items to do |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:02 | <Uniaika> | and I'll an appropriate amount of energy to those |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:04 | <Uniaika> | ping maerwald |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:21 | <juri_> | seven_three: pull them through a common typeclass? |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:28 | <maerwald> | ping maerwald? |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:51 | <m_shiraeeshi> | Uniaika: you're talking about haskell documentation, guides and tutorials? |
| 2021-05-06 21:14:56 | <geekosaur> | I think a typeclass can only help if it can resolve them to some common interface |
| 2021-05-06 21:15:01 | <m_shiraeeshi> | Uniaika: and haskell wiki? |
| 2021-05-06 21:15:21 | <sm[m]> | Uniaika: right now the something would be to read the thread when/if you have time and share your thoughts - thanks! |
| 2021-05-06 21:15:39 | <seven_three> | juri_: They do both derive Integral. I have thought of this too but I deal with the two different types differently in the functions. So if I get an Integer I do one thing and if I get a BitVector I do another. |
| 2021-05-06 21:16:17 | <juri_> | move the thing you're doing differently into the typeclass, and use the result of that as your common interface, then. |
| 2021-05-06 21:16:19 | × | Lowl3v3l quits (~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-203-255-063.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:16:46 | <Uniaika> | sm[m]: probably won't happen, I'm hips deep in some Servant codebase and type families have eaten my brain |
| 2021-05-06 21:17:09 | <Uniaika> | send me an email at hecate[@]haskell.foundation |
| 2021-05-06 21:17:14 | Rembane | hands Uniaika a brain restoration device |
| 2021-05-06 21:17:21 | <Uniaika> | good evening |
| 2021-05-06 21:17:24 | <sm[m]> | Ok, I understand. Hope you survive |
| 2021-05-06 21:17:41 | <sm[m]> | I won't send a mail, what would that accomplish :) |
| 2021-05-06 21:18:12 | <nshepperd> | zombie type families |
| 2021-05-06 21:18:33 | → | kderme joins (2e675c7c@46-92-124.adsl.cyta.gr) |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:01 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: emails can be marked unread/important etc, IRC messages not :p |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:12 | <Uniaika> | yes, and I can backlog them properly |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:27 | <Uniaika> | my IRC buffer is flushed at around 300 lines |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:32 | <Uniaika> | it won't exist tomorrow |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:33 | <geekosaur> | and the emails can have unrelated stuff like joins/pparts filtered from them |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:39 | <seven_three> | juri_: I don't understand what you mean by this. The way I envision a solution is that I use the Integral type class and then I say `f :: Integral val => val -> Whatever; case typeOf val of; Integer -> foo; BitVector -> bar` |
| 2021-05-06 21:19:44 | <geekosaur> | or unrelated discussions |
| 2021-05-06 21:20:03 | sm[m] | is speaking as an email-bankrupt person |
| 2021-05-06 21:20:09 | <sm[m]> | Thanks all for your input.. I must get on the road, afk a little |
| 2021-05-06 21:20:38 | maerwald | imagines sm[m] driving a huge truck |
| 2021-05-06 21:20:41 | × | Guest59693 quits (~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:20:54 | sm[m] | also has a permanent searchable chat history via Element |
| 2021-05-06 21:21:05 | <juri_> | seven_three: I'm suggesting you create a new typeclass, make implementations for both of your types, store the part that you do differently for the two types in the instances, then use the result as the common interface you call everywhere. |
| 2021-05-06 21:21:32 | <sm[m]> | That'd be cool, but it's a prius! Recent purchase! |
| 2021-05-06 21:21:34 | <juri_> | I have an example (i do this, tho i don't know if it's in good taste), if you'd like to see someone doing something like it. |
| 2021-05-06 21:22:29 | <seven_three> | juri_: ok now I understand what you mean. I know how to do this from here. I can even think of a nice name for this typeclass. Thanks I will do this. |
| 2021-05-06 21:23:37 | → | ph88^ joins (~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:f445:5d21:63ff:8e5e) |
| 2021-05-06 21:23:46 | × | malumore quits (~malumore@151.62.126.202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:24:05 | × | Guest55803 quits (~myst@focks.pw) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-06 21:24:19 | → | mystfox joins (~myst@focks.pw) |
| 2021-05-06 21:24:23 | → | cdsmith joins (49cf15a2@c-73-207-21-162.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-06 21:24:26 | → | Kaiepi joins (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-06 21:25:10 | × | mystfox quits (~myst@focks.pw) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-06 21:25:11 | × | hyperisco quits (~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:25:34 | → | mystfox joins (~myst@focks.pw) |
| 2021-05-06 21:25:56 | × | orion`1 quits (~orion`@195.140.213.38) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:26:12 | mystfox | is now known as glowpelt |
| 2021-05-06 21:26:38 | × | ph88 quits (~ph88@ip5f5af6fd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:27:07 | × | NinjaTrappeur quits (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:29:12 | × | toppler quits (~user@mtop.default.momentoftop.uk0.bigv.io) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-06 21:29:23 | → | Rav1 joins (~Rav1@modemcable159.116-21-96.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 2021-05-06 21:29:26 | → | toppler joins (~user@mtop.default.momentoftop.uk0.bigv.io) |
| 2021-05-06 21:31:16 | → | mounty joins (~mounty@236.216.214.218.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 2021-05-06 21:32:52 | × | Feuermagier quits (~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:34:07 | × | danvet quits (~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:34:46 | × | Rudd0 quits (~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:37:11 | × | Gurkenglas quits (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:37:42 | → | Alleria joins (~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-9d5f-7583-1c0a-e91b.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-06 21:37:44 | → | NinjaTrappeur joins (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) |
All times are in UTC.