Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-05-06 20:32:47 | <sm[m]> | it will overwhelm any normal single curator, so I think it needs to have some form of voting |
| 2021-05-06 20:33:03 | × | cdsmith quits (49cf15a2@c-73-207-21-162.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-06 20:33:23 | <sm[m]> | is a (recurring ?) reddit thread the simplest ? |
| 2021-05-06 20:35:13 | <juri_> | be glad these are the problems we have. :) |
| 2021-05-06 20:36:12 | <sm[m]> | I'm not glad, I'm bored of having this problem for a decade or more |
| 2021-05-06 20:36:19 | → | Ernest joins (6d4d403f@109.77.64.63) |
| 2021-05-06 20:36:35 | <maerwald> | what problem exactly |
| 2021-05-06 20:36:47 | <maerwald> | a student getting scared before exams? |
| 2021-05-06 20:36:53 | <geekosaur> | dunno, they're less than a week from exams and only just asking, what makes you think anything more discoverable will help? |
| 2021-05-06 20:37:27 | <geekosaur> | you can lead a student to knowledge but you can't make them think |
| 2021-05-06 20:37:34 | fendor_ | is now known as fendor |
| 2021-05-06 20:37:36 | × | MidAutumnHotaru quits (~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Quit: Quit 啾) |
| 2021-05-06 20:37:40 | <maerwald> | haskell exams are usually: desugar do-notation, do something funny with lists, understand foldr |
| 2021-05-06 20:38:12 | → | MidAutumnHotaru joins (~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) |
| 2021-05-06 20:39:12 | <sm[m]> | no, I don't care about the exam cruncher :) I mean this one: it is true that it's "hard" for newcomers to find the best place to start, and because of this we get these endless inefficient threads where we all look up our favorite resources and repeat them |
| 2021-05-06 20:39:46 | <maerwald> | but it's true... haskell wiki is terrible and we don't have something as awesome as doc.rust-lang.org |
| 2021-05-06 20:39:54 | <maerwald> | not even close |
| 2021-05-06 20:40:00 | → | wroathe joins (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-06 20:40:35 | <maerwald> | summon the documentation task force Uniaika |
| 2021-05-06 20:40:56 | <maerwald> | do this for haskell: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/index.html |
| 2021-05-06 20:41:52 | <maerwald> | and before someone links "what I wish I knew...": that's only a collection, not a tutorial or book |
| 2021-05-06 20:41:56 | → | tromp joins (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-06 20:42:18 | × | Ernest quits (6d4d403f@109.77.64.63) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-06 20:42:24 | <maerwald> | I actually maintain a private markdown with links about various topics |
| 2021-05-06 20:43:20 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/i-am-tom/haskell-exercises |
| 2021-05-06 20:43:23 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/system-f/fp-course |
| 2021-05-06 20:43:37 | <maerwald> | https://github.com/tssm/up-to-date-real-world-haskell |
| 2021-05-06 20:44:12 | <sm[m]> | what would "do this" mean here maerwald - write a new clean Haskell book ? Gather existing docs into an organized mdbook-based site ? |
| 2021-05-06 20:44:37 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: write a new clean haskell book |
| 2021-05-06 20:45:22 | <sm[m]> | Ok, that'd be cool if the right persons tackle it but I'm looking for something cheaper |
| 2021-05-06 20:46:08 | <maerwald> | https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/ |
| 2021-05-06 20:46:29 | <maerwald> | those should already be enough material for a week |
| 2021-05-06 20:46:37 | <sm[m]> | a better way to simply capture all the great existing links in one place. And secondly a sustainable way to highlight the community's favourites |
| 2021-05-06 20:46:50 | → | nineonine joins (~nineonine@2604:3d08:7783:f200:a9b8:e92a:88db:4a1) |
| 2021-05-06 20:46:57 | <maerwald> | you know haskell community would never agree on anything |
| 2021-05-06 20:47:17 | <maerwald> | like: these are the sanctioned links for learning |
| 2021-05-06 20:47:25 | <sm[m]> | no I don't know that and I'm denying it lalala |
| 2021-05-06 20:47:33 | <maerwald> | xD |
| 2021-05-06 20:47:58 | <sm[m]> | even if its one persons project at least I could link it each time |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:17 | <Uniaika> | hello yes I am the Documentation Task Force |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:18 | <maerwald> | I think I would also leave that to the documentation task force |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:33 | <maerwald> | There is the documentation task force |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:43 | <nshepperd> | https://www.haskell.org/documentation/ has a variety of links |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:44 | <maerwald> | short: DTF |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:49 | <Uniaika> | maerwald: DTF |
| 2021-05-06 20:48:55 | <Uniaika> | anyway, what's the matter? |
| 2021-05-06 20:49:26 | → | acidjnk_new2 joins (~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b954650e5c2c931fd0d8a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-06 20:49:39 | <maerwald> | sm[m] is sad about learning resources not having a central place where they are gathered |
| 2021-05-06 20:49:49 | <nshepperd> | you do however have to press the "documentation" button to find that, and then somehow pick one of the options from the ~20 different tutorials |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:14 | <sm[m]> | see our discussion above for context |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:27 | <maerwald> | nshepperd: TIL that most ppl don't even know how to update haskell.org :p |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:46 | <Unhammer> | What's the term for a pair of functions where fg=gf? |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:51 | <maerwald> | so a github repo would probably be more approrpiate |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:54 | <maerwald> | to move fast |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:57 | <sm[m]> | "Newcomers don't know where to start, and this leads to endless inefficient support threads" |
| 2021-05-06 20:50:58 | <Unhammer> | f.g=g.f |
| 2021-05-06 20:52:15 | <sm[m]> | "What's a cheap way we could do better at gathering, organizing and advertising all the things for easier getting-started" |
| 2021-05-06 20:53:20 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: installers pointing users to a documentation link :) |
| 2021-05-06 20:53:42 | <maerwald> | because people don't google "good haskell documentation" |
| 2021-05-06 20:53:42 | <Unhammer> | Eg (*2) and (*3), apply in any order |
| 2021-05-06 20:53:49 | <maerwald> | they google answers to specific questions |
| 2021-05-06 20:54:01 | <nshepperd> | Unhammer: commutative |
| 2021-05-06 20:54:20 | <Unhammer> | Oh phew |
| 2021-05-06 20:55:04 | <nshepperd> | or "f and g commute" |
| 2021-05-06 20:55:13 | <Unhammer> | I looked up on Wikipedia and it only had examples of values commuting around pluses |
| 2021-05-06 20:55:22 | <sm[m]> | It's not essential that people find the place themselves, that's a harder problem. But if there is one best place, we could provide it to the askers and save effort. |
| 2021-05-06 20:55:41 | <Unhammer> | Thanks nshepperd |
| 2021-05-06 20:56:17 | → | Guest87676 joins (~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) |
| 2021-05-06 20:56:36 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: the danger with that approach is that it just becomes a list and not a maintained *curated* set |
| 2021-05-06 20:56:50 | <maerwald> | and then the list is overwhelming and not helping anyone |
| 2021-05-06 20:56:59 | <m_shiraeeshi> | sm[m]: how about adding a functionality to lambdabot or some other bot, so that it remembers recommendations and presents them when asked |
| 2021-05-06 20:57:28 | <maerwald> | this is why I think only a consistent haskell book will be an improvement |
| 2021-05-06 20:57:46 | <nshepperd> | in that second reddit thread, the user commented that there actually was a list of learning material right there already but they didn't see it because of reddit's garbage design |
| 2021-05-06 20:57:59 | <sm[m]> | Yes, as I said it needs to include some way of identifying the best/most suitable items, and I suggest voting as a cheap non-controversial mechanism |
| 2021-05-06 20:58:11 | <nshepperd> | take from that what you will... |
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| 2021-05-06 20:58:37 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: voting is non-controversial? :> |
| 2021-05-06 20:58:43 | × | Pickchea quits (~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-06 20:59:01 | <sm[m]> | m_shiraeeshi: we have that, and it's only useful to irc users |
| 2021-05-06 20:59:26 | × | jneira quits (4f9b01f9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.155.1.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 2021-05-06 20:59:55 | × | toppler quits (~user@mtop.default.momentoftop.uk0.bigv.io) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-06 21:00:12 | → | toppler joins (~user@mtop.default.momentoftop.uk0.bigv.io) |
| 2021-05-06 21:00:36 | <m_shiraeeshi> | sm[m]: an irc user can get current recommendations from lambdabot and post them to reddit |
| 2021-05-06 21:00:53 | <sm[m]> | maerwald, yes, eg votes add useful signal in Reddit threads or on stack overflow and we're all used to that |
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| 2021-05-06 21:01:33 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: gnah... reddit is the best example why votes are controversial :p |
| 2021-05-06 21:01:58 | <sm[m]> | m_shiraeeshi: some kind of single help db accessible in various ways is possible |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:04 | <maerwald> | they are based on ppls mood, not on their thinking |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:06 | <m_shiraeeshi> | we can also add "current recommendations for beginners" page to tomsmedding's site |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:08 | × | catern quits (~sbaugh@2604:2000:8fc0:b:a9c7:866a:bf36:3407) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:33 | <nshepperd> | votes can easily be worthless if there's nothing driving them to mean what you want them to |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:37 | × | ADG1089 quits (~aditya@27.58.164.109) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-06 21:02:55 | <sm[m]> | maerwald we don't need to assume the worst, we have wanted useful voting on hackage for ever and it would be an improvement over nothing |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:16 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: does it even work on hackage? |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:20 | <sm[m]> | Like in app stores, votes are useful signal, and cheap |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:22 | <maerwald> | I could never figure out how it works |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:32 | <sm[m]> | Not very well yet |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:40 | <juri_> | votes without verification are dicey, as well. |
| 2021-05-06 21:03:48 | <maerwald> | sm[m]: yeah, like 5 star reviews on amazon... and when you buy it, the product is crap :p |
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