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2020-10-27 20:38:03 × stree quits (~stree@50-108-72-205.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
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2020-10-27 20:45:32 <Mrbuck> https://youtu.be/O9upVbGSBFo?t=3801 Hi why did this guy said it took a week to write some small program in haskell and then it run like a turtle?
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2020-10-27 20:47:05 × hyiltiz quits (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-27 20:47:34 <Uniaika> idk, never saw him around asking for help :P
2020-10-27 20:47:44 <Athas> Mrbuck: I think he's exaggerating for effect, but Haskell is infamous for requiring more ceremony around IO.
2020-10-27 20:48:16 <Athas> Regarding performance, it's possible he used one of the old interpreters (Hugs), or just had a space leak. Haskell is not generally a particularly slow or fast language.
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2020-10-27 20:49:43 × nbloomf quits (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:79dc:6e3d:1f6f:5c9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2020-10-27 20:50:20 <maerwald> They do some nice js bashing later though
2020-10-27 20:50:20 <Mrbuck> Athas: Thank you for the answer
2020-10-27 20:51:56 <davean> Haskell can produce quite fast code but calling GHC an optimizing compiler is a little silly. I can beat C implimentations in Haskell but I have to do the work.
2020-10-27 20:52:09 <davean> When i don't its several times slower by default usually.
2020-10-27 20:52:23 <tomsmeding> davean: ghc is an optimising compiler; if it didn't optimise your code, it would run a _lot_ slower ;)
2020-10-27 20:52:33 <tomsmeding> attestable by using -O0 with ghc
2020-10-27 20:52:34 × yianni quits (d8d049a0@216.208.73.160) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-10-27 20:53:03 <davean> tomsmeding: I find the ASM GHC puts out to be pretty much the straight translation of my Haskell personally.
2020-10-27 20:53:37 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-27 20:53:41 <tomsmeding> hm, perhaps most of the work is to strip away all the abstractions we like to make?
2020-10-27 20:53:48 <tomsmeding> *most of the work it does
2020-10-27 20:53:50 × raehik quits (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-27 20:54:04 <davean> yes, thats most of the -O0 -O2 difference in many cases
2020-10-27 20:54:10 <davean> directly refering to, and inlining things
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2020-10-27 20:54:16 <maerwald> I've never been able to beat C performance with haskell. That's an interesting statement
2020-10-27 20:54:18 <davean> but the code its self is straight line either way
2020-10-27 20:54:51 <tomsmeding> I wonder, ghc can use llvm as a backend, can't it? would that help?
2020-10-27 20:54:54 <davean> maerwald: usually my benchmarks there are reasonable C programs that compitent people wrote but didn't care to spend time optimizing.
2020-10-27 20:55:12 <davean> tomsmeding: LLVM doesn't help. Well it does, but only for heavy numerical portions of the code.
2020-10-27 20:55:23 <tomsmeding> makes sense
2020-10-27 20:55:27 <davean> for non-numerical codes, not using LLVM is faster
2020-10-27 20:55:37 <maerwald> Ah, I thought you wrote both implementations
2020-10-27 20:55:41 <tomsmeding> that may be the most interesting statement yet
2020-10-27 20:55:55 <maerwald> Everything else isn't really representative imo
2020-10-27 20:55:58 <tomsmeding> except if you mean _compilation_ is faster without llvm, which is unsurprising
2020-10-27 20:56:07 × taurux quits (~taurux@net-130-25-120-80.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2020-10-27 20:56:15 <davean> maerwald: I'd say that isn't representative because that would be comparing how much effort and skill *I* had
2020-10-27 20:56:19 <davean> tomsmeding: no
2020-10-27 20:56:38 <davean> tomsmeding: I mean the generated program is faster without LLVM if its not generally numerical in nature.
2020-10-27 20:56:45 <maerwald> Yes and yet it's the only useful comparison
2020-10-27 20:56:53 <tomsmeding> that sounds like a huge failure of llvm then :p
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2020-10-27 20:56:57 <tomsmeding> or of ghc's usage of it
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2020-10-27 20:57:21 <davean> maerwald: I don't think thats true "This is the actual C code people put out as final products" vs. "This is how I can do it in Haskell given $X time" is perfectly useful.
2020-10-27 20:57:35 × heatsink quits (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-27 20:57:40 <maerwald> As in: I want to know if anyone proficient with both languages managed to beat C
2020-10-27 20:57:52 → justanotheruser joins (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-10-27 20:57:59 <maerwald> I wasn't able to
2020-10-27 20:58:14 <davean> maerwald: but that just says you're more proficient at C optimization
2020-10-27 20:58:20 <maerwald> No
2020-10-27 20:58:32 <maerwald> You need more data points
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