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Logs: freenode/#haskell

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2020-11-02 17:34:57 → heatsink joins (~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-02 17:35:30 × christo quits (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-02 17:36:02 <maerwald> dsal: did you use another system?
2020-11-02 17:36:19 <maerwald> (most of them are proprietary)
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2020-11-02 17:41:19 <dsal> I've used tons of different unix systems since the 90s.
2020-11-02 17:41:37 → ubert1 joins (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e530be6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-11-02 17:42:07 <dsal> nix is weird from a unix perspective, but it's super nice from a packaging perspective. docker is popular these days, but gross in many ways, including just not being great software.
2020-11-02 17:42:29 <monochrom> I no longer ask for great software.
2020-11-02 17:42:44 × ubert quits (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e53d1e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2020-11-02 17:42:50 <yushyin> monochrom: you just write it yourself? ;)
2020-11-02 17:42:53 <dsal> I end up just writing all my own software these days because everything is just so depressingly bad.
2020-11-02 17:43:01 <monochrom> Nah, I don't write great software either.
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2020-11-02 17:44:19 <dsal> There are a few bits of software I use that actually seem pretty good. Even then, a little questionable. Given its complexity, Ableton Live does a pretty good job. I don't think I could write something similar. But there are so many of these javascript things like zigbee2mqtt that just barely work well enough that I can not think about them most of the time.
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2020-11-02 18:12:27 ← invaser parts (~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) ()
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2020-11-02 18:12:57 <invaser> Hi, can someone take a look at the problem I have in #haskell-beginners?
2020-11-02 18:13:09 <invaser> Or I can copy it here
2020-11-02 18:13:14 × sakirious quits (~sakirious@c-71-197-191-137.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-11-02 18:14:10 → hpc joins (~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net)
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2020-11-02 18:15:16 <gobbleguy> invaser: you can bring it here
2020-11-02 18:15:42 <gobbleguy> This channel is fine for "beginner" questions, too.
2020-11-02 18:16:45 <invaser> Ok, so I'm trying to make parser to do this: parse (string "z1" <|> pure "") "" "zet" should be Right "", and not Left ...
2020-11-02 18:17:35 <invaser> I get why this code doesn't what I want it to, because it's already read "z" and exception arises only on second char
2020-11-02 18:17:50 <dminuoso> invaser: parsec does not backtrack by default
2020-11-02 18:18:01 <dminuoso> Wrap the left part in `try (...)`
2020-11-02 18:18:33 <invaser> a-ha, it's `try`, tyty
2020-11-02 18:20:04 <dminuoso> invaser: So while `l <|> r` encodes a choice for parser combinators, it itself does not guarantee `l` would backtrack on failure (that is "unconsume" already consumed tokens)
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2020-11-02 18:20:46 × andreas31 quits (~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-02 18:21:04 <dminuoso> Some libraries always backtrack by default, others backtrack only certain primitives, and parsec *never* backtracks by default
2020-11-02 18:21:35 <invaser> dminuoso: So, in layman's terms, it works only when it determines that left parser can't parse the string on the first char?
2020-11-02 18:22:43 <dminuoso> invaser: Unless you denote the left side can backtrack, say `try l <|> r`
2020-11-02 18:23:02 <davean> dminuoso: Mostly my stance is I'm entirely willing to turn on extensions but I look for ways not to and have a highish standard for if they improve things. So I'm not in the "limit them like crazy" camp and I'm not "just enable them", I've used almost all the extensions when I had a good reason, but I'm just careful about it and give it a lot of consideration if I'm missing a better way to
2020-11-02 18:23:04 <davean> approach the problem and if the extension is acting as a crutch to a poor conceptualization of the problem and actually just enabling a more complicated system than is needed (which is often the case)
2020-11-02 18:23:23 → cosimone joins (~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:9217:95c7:973d:d0ad)
2020-11-02 18:23:55 <dminuoso> invaser: The fundamental problem is that parser combinators cant do automatic lookahead
2020-11-02 18:24:10 → andreas31 joins (~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2020-11-02 18:24:21 davean stares at that statement for a bit.
2020-11-02 18:24:33 <dminuoso> *monadic!
2020-11-02 18:24:34 <davean> They certainly don't. I'm not convinced they can't.
2020-11-02 18:24:35 <dminuoso> ;)
2020-11-02 18:24:47 <dminuoso> davean: They cant if they are monadic.
2020-11-02 18:24:49 <monochrom> Oh, monadic, yeah.
2020-11-02 18:24:57 <dminuoso> With selective or applicative parser combinators you can.
2020-11-02 18:25:05 × ensyde quits (~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-02 18:25:15 <davean> dminuoso: You can't *in general* but many of the combinators are selective or applicative.
2020-11-02 18:25:18 <davean> dminuoso: so sometimes you can.
2020-11-02 18:25:18 <monochrom> BUT! I have realized that given anyChar, you can stay Applicative for CFG.
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