Logs: freenode/#haskell
| 2021-04-12 22:22:36 | <monochrom> | I have to know all definitions too in other languages, I would think. In Scheme, I cannot know what happens to (define (f) (g)) until I know that, for example, g is not (define (g) (begin (f) (f))). |
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| 2021-04-12 22:23:28 | <monochrom> | But what I do know is that in f, the (g) is a tail call. And that in g, the 2nd (f) is a tail call. The Scheme standard forces this. |
| 2021-04-12 22:24:01 | <monochrom> | And then suddenly it doesn't look so wrong that I can carry over this model to IO's >>= |
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| 2021-04-12 23:00:24 | Alleria | is now known as Guest3055 |
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| 2021-04-12 23:05:40 | <DigitalKiwi> | is it amusing to anyone else that there are 3 mersenne library by dons and 1 by bos and it has more usage than all 3 of dons combined? now we know why bos name is first on the book authors ;p |
| 2021-04-12 23:06:21 | <monochrom> | "this shows you who's the boss" |
| 2021-04-12 23:06:51 | <monochrom> | But don't get too excited. The mafia obeys the don. |
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| 2021-04-12 23:19:47 | <edwardk> | All this makes you wonder about Goerzen. |
| 2021-04-12 23:20:10 | Clint | squints. |
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| 2021-04-13 00:04:05 | <ski> | "It already breaks down when its not purely syntactic anymore" -- this already happens in strict languages, too. see library syntax like e.g. `and',`or' in R⁵RS <https://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-6.html#%_idx_80>, or the library procedures `any',`every' in SRFI 1 <https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#any>, for Scheme |
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| 2021-04-13 00:10:38 | <ski> | tail calls in Haskell (which one can divide into forcing a computation (parameterized or not), in a tail context; and things like the execution of a invocation of a sub-action (parameterized or not) in a tail context of the execution of the action it's a part of) are still important, albeit not quite as important (relatively speaking) as in strict languages supporting "proper tail recursion"/"tail/last |
| 2021-04-13 00:10:44 | <ski> | calls" (either the language itself, or an implementation thereof, supporting it), because of the increased importance of guarded recursion / incremental operations in Haskell |
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| 2021-04-13 00:15:08 | <ski> | without acknowledging that tail calls are relevant, we can't state that a tail-recursive definition must necessarily lead to a bulky (iow non-incremental) operation (and vice versa). and certain eta-reductions (as involved in the CPS transformation, to explain tail calls), can be quite important for efficiency in Haskell, e.g. for the definition of `(>>=)' for |
| 2021-04-13 00:15:13 | <ski> | `Cont'/`ContT'/`Codensity'/`Managed',`State'/`StateT',.. |
| 2021-04-13 00:17:08 | <ski> | (well, i suppose by "vice versa", i meant the contrapositive, iow from `TailRecursive -> Not Incremental' to `Incremental -> Not TailRecursive', both being equivalent to `Not (TailRecursive,Incremental)') |
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| 2021-04-13 00:19:45 | <ski> | and i'm pretty sure tail calls play some rôle in libraries intended to enable fusion of their operations (specifically, for "final summary" operations, which will typically be a loop that drives the computation by forcing the steps of the contained incremental operations) |
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