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2020-10-20 17:58:16 tomsmeding neither
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2020-10-20 18:21:54 <frdg> is `monotonicity` a relevant concept in Haskell?
2020-10-20 18:22:25 <monochrom> Depends on context. But probably yes.
2020-10-20 18:23:05 <monochrom> Depends on context, but monotonicity could be relevant to all computing. All computable functions are monotonic.
2020-10-20 18:23:28 hackage versions 4.0.0 - Types and parsers for software version numbers. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/versions-4.0.0 (fosskers)
2020-10-20 18:23:31 <frdg> The context I am thinking of is if I can benefit by ensuring all of my functions are monotonic.
2020-10-20 18:23:56 <frdg> or does Haskell ensure that implicitly?
2020-10-20 18:23:58 <koz_> frdg: mapMonotonic et al in Data.Map maybe?
2020-10-20 18:24:06 <monochrom> The context determines which "monotonic" we're talking about.
2020-10-20 18:24:11 <koz_> I don't think Haskell can ensure something like monotonicity.
2020-10-20 18:24:19 <koz_> (of any stripe)
2020-10-20 18:24:41 <monochrom> In other words, which partial order you have in mind.
2020-10-20 18:24:58 × tromp quits (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-20 18:25:05 <frdg> I know of monotonicity through learning Prolog
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2020-10-20 18:25:26 <frdg> so whatever the context is in Prolog I guess.
2020-10-20 18:25:26 <koz_> Wait, are we talking about monotonicity of entailment?
2020-10-20 18:25:49 <frdg> koz_: yes just found that
2020-10-20 18:25:50 <monochrom> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Denotational_semantics
2020-10-20 18:26:13 × geekosaur quits (ac3a3b11@172.58.59.17) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-20 18:26:14 <frdg> Ill read this
2020-10-20 18:26:36 <monochrom> I don't know Prolog's monotonicity of entailment.
2020-10-20 18:27:00 <monochrom> TLDR ctrl-f for "semantic approximation order"
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2020-10-20 18:27:00 <koz_> monochrom: It's a property of some logics.
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2020-10-20 18:27:24 <dolio> Naturally computable functions are monotone with respect to a specific partial order, not every possible partial order.
2020-10-20 18:27:28 hackage lp-diagrams 2.1.3 - An EDSL for diagrams based based on linear constraints https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lp-diagrams-2.1.3 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
2020-10-20 18:27:30 <frdg> This post has a nice answer: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43314658/what-are-the-requirements-a-computer-function-must-meet-to-be-considered-monoto
2020-10-20 18:27:37 <dolio> Some of which may disagree with each other. :)
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2020-10-20 18:30:27 <tomsmeding> frdg: the monotonicity of entailment as described in that SO answer is specific to logical derivation; what would you then mean with "ensuring all of my functions are monotonic" in haskell?
2020-10-20 18:30:28 hackage gasp 1.3.0.0 - A framework of algebraic classes https://hackage.haskell.org/package/gasp-1.3.0.0 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
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2020-10-20 18:31:36 <frdg> tomsmeding: that question doesn't make sense does it?
2020-10-20 18:31:38 → shafox joins (~shafox@106.51.234.111)
2020-10-20 18:31:54 <monochrom> It makes sense iff you can give examples and counterexamples.
2020-10-20 18:32:32 <tomsmeding> in other words: strictly that definition of monotonicity doesn't really apply, but that doesn't mean there is not another definition that you have in mind that _is_ relevant :)
2020-10-20 18:34:47 <frdg> say you had a pipeline of composed functions. A function could be "monotonic" if it's addition to the pipeline restricts the size of the codomain. If it enlarges the size then it is not monotonic.
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2020-10-20 18:36:37 <frdg> though I cannot think of any pure function that would be "non-monotonic" in this definition.
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2020-10-20 18:38:28 <ski> what about `(>= 0) . abs' vs. `(>= 0) . subtract 1 . abs' ?
2020-10-20 18:38:30 × wallacer3 quits (~quassel@ns3134113.ip-37-187-4.eu) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-10-20 18:38:45 <frdg> restricts the size of the range not codomain.
2020-10-20 18:39:00 <ski> what does "restricts the size of the codomain" mean ?
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2020-10-20 18:42:41 <frdg> ski: I believe that both these function would fit this definition of monotonic if we added a rule that the function could at most preserve the size of the functions range.
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2020-10-20 18:45:36 <ski> "monotonic" usually refers to some partial order. what is the partial order, in your case ?
2020-10-20 18:46:27 hackage lp-diagrams 2.1.4 - An EDSL for diagrams based based on linear constraints https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lp-diagrams-2.1.4 (JeanPhilippeBernardy)
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2020-10-20 18:47:28 hackage beam-postgres 0.5.0.0 - Connection layer between beam and postgres https://hackage.haskell.org/package/beam-postgres-0.5.0.0 (TravisAthougies)
2020-10-20 18:47:40 <frdg> skit: the size of the range.
2020-10-20 18:47:57 <frdg> ski
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