Logs on 2026-04-07 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 04:24:45 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> is there a way to |
| 04:24:53 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> wrap Middleware etc in ReaderT? |
| 04:25:34 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I'm working with Twain right now, and I'm furious, because I decided to drag out ReaderT instead of going {-# NOINLINE #-} unsafePerformIO or manual threading |
| 04:25:50 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> and I ended up, ummm, just wrapping everything in Reader, not even ReaderT |
| 04:25:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> ::facepalm:: |
| 04:26:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I am now learning the most cursed code in existence |
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| 05:21:38 | <gentauro> | _JusSx_: I had the same issue consuming ASCII. This might help -> https://gitlab.com/spisemisu/pcx-utils/-/blob/master/exe/ParseTeamsEaf.hs?ref_type=heads#L75-100 |
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| 06:04:28 | <gentauro> | % :t null |
| 06:04:29 | <yahb2> | null :: Foldable t => t a -> Bool |
| 06:04:43 | <gentauro> | % null == ['a'] |
| 06:04:43 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:39:9: error: [GHC-83865] ; • Couldn't match expected type: t0 a0 -> Bool ; with actual type: [Char] ; • In the second argument of ‘(==)’, namely ‘['a']’ ; ... |
| 06:04:55 | <gentauro> | % null ['a'] |
| 06:04:55 | <yahb2> | False |
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| 06:08:42 | gentauro | Haskells `null` is the good kind of `null` :) |
| 06:12:23 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> if all nulls were replaced by null :: Foldable t => t a -> Bool |
| 06:12:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> would be interesting, at least |
| 06:12:32 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> lots of function pointers when you weren't expecting any |
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| 06:27:59 | <gentauro> | Liamzee: In order to be Foldable, isn't there are req for the types to a `Monoid` (`mempty`)? |
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| 07:07:20 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> null is in the Foldable typeclass |
| 07:07:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i assume it just defaults foldr with a default value of False |
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| 08:58:27 | <ski> | "if the argument is zero-size, does it exist?" -- yes |
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| 09:06:21 | <gentauro> | ski: empty set? |
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| 10:20:34 | <probie> | Without a zero-size argument, GHC can't produce code to `launchMissiles` (or whatever your preferred obviously side-effecting action is) |
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| 10:54:15 | <ski> | gentauro : no, singleton set/type |
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| 10:54:44 | <ski> | empty set/type would represent a computation which does not return |
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| 10:56:19 | <ski> | two-logarithm of number of possible values, gives (rounding up) number of bits to represent all the values (assuming a representation using the same number of bits, corresponding to considering each possible value equally likely/important) |
| 10:56:36 | <ski> | > logBase 2 256 |
| 10:56:38 | <lambdabot> | 8.0 |
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| 10:56:53 | <ski> | for `256' values in a `Word8', you need eight bits |
| 10:56:55 | <ski> | > logBase 2 2 |
| 10:56:57 | <lambdabot> | 1.0 |
| 10:57:07 | <ski> | for `2' values, in a `Bool', you need one bit |
| 10:57:12 | <ski> | > logBase 2 1 |
| 10:57:13 | <lambdabot> | 0.0 |
| 10:57:40 | <ski> | for one single possible value, in a singleton type (like `()'), you need zero bits |
| 10:57:57 | <ski> | then boxing, and non-strictness, adds overhead over this |
| 10:58:08 | <ski> | > logBase 2 0 |
| 10:58:09 | <lambdabot> | -Infinity |
| 10:58:23 | <int-e> | (give me an element of the empty set and I'll compress all your data) |
| 10:59:00 | <ski> | for an empty type, the same formula gives negative infinity number of bits .. but here the reasoning breaks down. since there is no value in the type, you can't represent it, so the question of how many bits it takes doesn't come up |
| 10:59:35 | <ski> | for a singleton type, there's no need to represent distinctions, so you need zero bits, so you don't need to reserve memory in RAM, or a register |
| 10:59:41 | <ski> | hehe, int-e |
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| 11:00:34 | <ski> | in Haskell (ignoring non-strictness), `Void' (not to be confused with the `void' of C,C++,Java,C#, which is more like `()' in Haskell) would be an empty type |
| 11:00:53 | <ski> | data Void -- zero alternative consstructors given |
| 11:01:02 | <ski> | and then you can define |
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| 11:01:06 | <ski> | void :: Void -> a |
| 11:01:13 | <ski> | void v = case v of {} |
| 11:01:37 | <ski> | since there's no possible values, you need to give zero branches in the `case'-`of' |
| 11:03:01 | <ski> | `Void' can be occasionally useful, in Haskell, if you have a parameterized type `F', and you're using it as `F Int', `F [String]' or whatever, but sometimes you don't want to allow any value of type `a' in a value of type `F a' (presumably there are values which have zero `a's), and then you can use `F Void' |
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| 11:03:32 | <ski> | @hoogle exitWith |
| 11:03:33 | <lambdabot> | System.Exit exitWith :: ExitCode -> IO a |
| 11:03:33 | <lambdabot> | Protolude exitWith :: ExitCode -> IO a |
| 11:03:33 | <lambdabot> | Relude.Lifted.Exit exitWith :: MonadIO m => ExitCode -> m a |
| 11:04:30 | <ski> | `exitWith' could have had type `ExitCode -> IO Void', would have served the same purpose, showing that it does not return (monadically) normally. the same would be the case for throwing an I/O exception |
| 11:04:52 | <ski> | @hoogle throwIO |
| 11:04:53 | <lambdabot> | Control.Exception throwIO :: (HasCallStack, Exception e) => e -> IO a |
| 11:04:53 | <lambdabot> | Control.Exception.Base throwIO :: (HasCallStack, Exception e) => e -> IO a |
| 11:04:53 | <lambdabot> | GHC.IO throwIO :: (HasCallStack, Exception e) => e -> IO a |
| 11:06:07 | <ski> | but, then you'd need to use `void' above (called `absurd' in `Data.Void'), to be able to invoke it in any context, e.g. in a branch that should abort, while another branch returns some value of some particular type (distinct from `Void') |
| 11:09:12 | <ski> | .. i did a cooperative concurrency monad thing, where i could fork off a (user-level) thread. i wanted the spawned thread to always end by invoking an operation `endThread'. at first (iirc) i used `endThread :: M a' and `forkThread :: M a -> M ()', but i had some `undefined's sprinkled through the implementation of the operations, which i wanted to remove |
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| 11:09:53 | <ski> | so, i changed to `endThread :: M Void' and `forkThread :: M Void -> M ()', which allowed me to confidently then remove the `undefined's |
| 11:10:54 | <gentauro> | ski: is there a way to "enforce" non-usage of `undefined` in a code base? |
| 11:11:20 | <ski> | another example. you can e.g. make a type `Expr var', for representing some kind of expressions, where `var' is a type of free variable identifiers. in that case, `Expr Void' means an expression with no (free) variables |
| 11:12:02 | <ski> | i think there's some tool to look for potential problems with partial operations (of which `undefined' is a blatant case), but i forgot the name, gentauro |
| 11:15:10 | <gentauro> | hmmmm |
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| 12:22:04 | <gentauro> | @pl f n xs = (n, lines xs) |
| 12:22:04 | <lambdabot> | f = (. lines) . (,) |
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| 12:37:35 | <ski> | @pl \xs -> (n,lines xs) |
| 12:37:35 | <lambdabot> | (,) n . lines |
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| 15:27:15 | <gentauro> | thx ski xD |
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| 16:07:03 | <alter2000> | #join nvim |
| 16:07:09 | <alter2000> | oops my bad |
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All times are in UTC on 2026-04-07.