Logs: liberachat/#xmonad
| 2021-10-24 00:28:02 | <L29Ah> | 10/10 do recommend |
| 2021-10-24 00:29:16 | <mariari> | It's not just wine sadly, it seems any application that seems to demand attention in a certain way it freaks xmonad out, I can't find any bug reports of a similar problem |
| 2021-10-24 00:29:36 | <L29Ah> | can you name a few? |
| 2021-10-24 00:29:44 | <mariari> | Games mostly |
| 2021-10-24 00:29:57 | <L29Ah> | don't see that with xonotic |
| 2021-10-24 00:30:01 | <mariari> | not all games |
| 2021-10-24 00:30:04 | <mariari> | xonotic does not have the issue |
| 2021-10-24 00:30:14 | <mariari> | it's only certain applications that demand the screen attention in certain ways |
| 2021-10-24 00:30:58 | <mariari> | it's with how certain games do a call, most games do it in a way that does not freak out xmonad |
| 2021-10-24 00:42:31 | <geekosaur> | this may be improved with the new ewmh (which is still being ironed out), we don't currently advertise that we handle focus changes correctly and this confuses a number of applications |
| 2021-10-24 00:42:47 | <mariari> | ahh is that what may be causing this? |
| 2021-10-24 00:43:25 | <geekosaur> | some of the apps that do it have options to force old-style focus changing, and they behave correctly in that case. (I think vlc is one?) |
| 2021-10-24 00:45:58 | <geekosaur> | so hopefully when we get 0.17 out (should be soon) this should be mostly fixed. if it isn't, open an issue then |
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| 2021-10-24 00:46:48 | <mariari> | OK, do you know the rough behavior I'm alluding to? I just recorded an application that does it |
| 2021-10-24 00:46:55 | <geekosaur> | (we're targeting before the end of the month. how "before" remains to be seen) |
| 2021-10-24 00:46:59 | <mariari> | it makes xmonad fairly unusable |
| 2021-10-24 00:47:07 | <mariari> | ahh nice, I hope it ends up on the stack lts soon, as that's how I use xmonad |
| 2021-10-24 00:47:23 | <geekosaur> | the focus flickering thing is fairly well known, yes |
| 2021-10-24 00:47:46 | <geekosaur> | it's a largeish part of why the ewmh revamp that is still in progress |
| 2021-10-24 00:51:38 | <geekosaur> | …and there may still be breakage afterward from apps that ignored the part of ewmh that says that a window manager is not required to obey application-initiated focus changes, but we can hope those are few (and default will be to honor them, it'll be configurable) |
| 2021-10-24 01:01:00 | <mariari> | do you know the specific name for the event that causes this? |
| 2021-10-24 01:06:20 | <geekosaur> | _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW |
| 2021-10-24 01:08:28 | <geekosaur> | hm, actually I'm not exactly sure we handle it if an app just calls XSetInputFocus directly, we may just slap it back to what we think it should be |
| 2021-10-24 01:08:44 | <geekosaur> | apps are not supposed to call that directly except specifically to their own subwindows |
| 2021-10-24 01:09:24 | <geekosaur> | which is why _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW exists, to allow apps to request that the wm change focus |
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| 2021-10-24 01:20:48 | <mariari> | I see, so if that gets called often hence the boarder flickering and xmonad lag/unresposiveness |
| 2021-10-24 01:22:12 | <geekosaur> | well, some apps just get uppity if they change focus and then something else (like the window manager) changes it somewhere else, so they change it again |
| 2021-10-24 01:22:20 | <geekosaur> | and you end up with an ugly loop |
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| 2021-10-24 01:23:37 | <mariari> | but what if it's just 1 application stealing focus? |
| 2021-10-24 01:23:42 | <mariari> | that is what I have at least |
| 2021-10-24 01:23:52 | <mariari> | probably calling it constantly so it flickers on 1 window |
| 2021-10-24 01:24:29 | <geekosaur> | right, 1 app changes focus to itself, xmonad changes it back, app changes it bvack to itself, lather rinse repeat |
| 2021-10-24 01:24:41 | <mariari> | changes it back to where exactly? |
| 2021-10-24 01:24:48 | <mariari> | that is the confusing part for me |
| 2021-10-24 01:24:57 | <mariari> | as you can have the item focused, and then the next moment it works like that |
| 2021-10-24 01:25:03 | <mariari> | so I'm unsure of where the focus is moving to |
| 2021-10-24 01:25:12 | <geekosaur> | to whatever window had focus before the app forcibly changed it |
| 2021-10-24 01:25:45 | <geekosaur> | if this is happening while the app has focus then you're seeing the reverse form iof it, some app is stealing focus and then xmonad sets it back to your app |
| 2021-10-24 01:25:55 | <geekosaur> | you still get the loop |
| 2021-10-24 01:26:22 | <geekosaur> | alternately you can have two apps fighting over which one shoyuld get focxus and stealing it from each other |
| 2021-10-24 01:26:23 | <mariari> | well I have an example where in a menu the game does not steal focus, so the game is focused, then when I close the windows it acts like that |
| 2021-10-24 01:26:26 | <geekosaur> | *focus |
| 2021-10-24 01:26:32 | <mariari> | so it's one app steal focus from itself it seems |
| 2021-10-24 01:27:46 | <geekosaur> | hm. either (1) this is the not-fully-supporting ewmh thing, or (2) we've once seen an app that behaved or not depending on whether a compositor was running or not |
| 2021-10-24 01:27:56 | <geekosaur> | notably that one also involved menus |
| 2021-10-24 01:28:03 | <geekosaur> | (and it was a game design app) |
| 2021-10-24 01:28:54 | <mariari> | huh a compositor could effect it, I could perhaps put on whatever compoton is called these days to see if that makes a difference |
| 2021-10-24 01:28:59 | <mariari> | I think it's likely 1) |
| 2021-10-24 01:29:02 | <geekosaur> | picom, apparently |
| 2021-10-24 01:29:16 | <mariari> | as I've launched the game on stumpwm, and it didn't freak out but it stole attention every time I tried to go away |
| 2021-10-24 01:29:37 | <geekosaur> | although I just run compton because (a) that's what's packaged on ubuntu (b) I keep hearing about performance problems with picom |
| 2021-10-24 01:31:03 | <geekosaur> | ok, so that's actually the same issue but stumpwm apparently handles it better than we do, or maybe that's because of our not advertising _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW |
| 2021-10-24 01:31:49 | <geekosaur> | again I'd be interested in hearing of the ewmh fixes in 0.17 help or even just change the behavior |
| 2021-10-24 01:32:04 | <geekosaur> | *if the |
| 2021-10-24 01:32:07 | <mariari> | yeah even it just making it not make xmonad unusable if it lasts for any length of time is great |
| 2021-10-24 01:32:20 | <mariari> | yesterday I had it switch between workspace 2 and 3 for a solid 10 minutes before I killed my entire x11 |
| 2021-10-24 01:32:33 | <geekosaur> | they're not complete yet so I can't even point you at a PR to install locally |
| 2021-10-24 01:38:43 | <mariari> | yeah that's fine, hopefully it'll be on an lts eventually |
| 2021-10-24 01:40:02 | <mariari> | with this particular application I hope to get it's call fixed, so it'll be hard to tell if the game fixes it as I can't save an older version sadly |
| 2021-10-24 01:41:17 | <mariari> | I wish I had better examples for this, I only do for the other bugs I face |
| 2021-10-24 01:43:38 | <mariari> | there is a fun one with windows that close bringing focus to the last window in the stack, so in a sub layout with tabs where one has a tab in the last slot in the stack it moves to the non visible one |
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| 2021-10-24 07:49:19 | Server | sets mode +cnt |
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| 2021-10-24 09:05:31 | <liskin> | hm, this endless flicker issue was historically known as https://code.google.com/archive/p/xmonad/issues/200 and I haven't seen it in years… |
| 2021-10-24 09:06:32 | <liskin> | mariari, geekosaur: it's also worth noting that all the changes related to EWMH that we wanted to do before the 0.17 release are already in |
| 2021-10-24 09:07:12 | <liskin> | what is left is just a revamp of the user/configuration interface of the EWMH modules, but functionally we're good already |
| 2021-10-24 09:07:59 | <liskin> | Solid: did we decide what to do with the X.L.Fullscreen deprecation warning? |
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| 2021-10-24 13:37:52 | <Solid> | liskin: we did not and I still don't quite know how to feel about it |
| 2021-10-24 13:38:43 | <Solid> | btw, did you self assign 341 because you don't want anyone else to interfer or because you'll do it if no one else does? :) |
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| 2021-10-24 14:34:51 | <liskin> | Dunno what's 341 (on a walk) but definitely the latter |
| 2021-10-24 14:34:58 | <liskin> | Solid: ^ |
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| 2021-10-24 14:36:04 | <liskin> | I'm working on packdeps today, then then announcement and/or ppPrinters |
| 2021-10-24 14:36:06 | <Solid> | aight, thanks! (it's the "update contributing" issue) |
| 2021-10-24 14:37:37 | <liskin> | Oh, then that's a bit of both. I have some thoughts that I wanted to get out in writing but that doesn't mean I need to do the whole revamp |
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