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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2021-07-17 20:59:41 <maerwald> or maybe I just imagined that
2021-07-17 21:00:33 <dmj`> geekosaur: what are your thoughts on GRIN as a backend for GHC
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2021-07-17 21:05:18 <geekosaur> looks to me like it really wants to be a whole-program compiler? which ghc kinda doesn't
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2021-07-17 21:05:42 <geekosaur> (and yet kinda does since it "fakes it" via exporting cidode in .hi files)
2021-07-17 21:05:55 <geekosaur> *code
2021-07-17 21:07:27 <geekosaur> still, makes me wonder how well grin would work if used thye way ghc would use it instead of whole-program
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2021-07-17 21:09:43 <geekosaur> would really need to write out IR files instead of object files and let the backend take it from there, but I'm not sure how well ghc would work with that setup given it doesn't e.g. do that with llvm IR
2021-07-17 21:11:06 <geekosaur> and you couldn't mix grin backend objects with non-grin backend, like you currently can with llvm vs. asm
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2021-07-17 21:13:22 <geekosaur> I think ghc would have to treat grin not as a backend but as a "way" (e.g. static vs. dynamic, or profiled vs. non-profiled)
2021-07-17 21:13:37 <monochrom> cabal was invented long before "industry standard" existed.
2021-07-17 21:14:02 <monochrom> Apart from XML.
2021-07-17 21:14:22 <Rembane> I wonder why industry didn't go with cabal's format.
2021-07-17 21:15:23 <monochrom> And JVM bytecode.
2021-07-17 21:15:50 <geekosaur> because it's only friendly to haskell, since haskell is friendly to parsers?
2021-07-17 21:16:18 <dmj`> ghc-grin forks ghc it seems, exports *all* of the STG somewhere, does the analysis, brings it back and continues on in the pipeline, to great effect. Suppose we went the nuclear option and replaced STG with GRIN. GRIN would inline the eval function (which is currently hardcoded in the RTS), then perform the WPO, then emit LLVM.
2021-07-17 21:16:19 <geekosaur> and the syntax is at least reminiscent of haskell
2021-07-17 21:16:34 <dmj`> We could even compile the RTS to GRIN and include it in the optimization phases, which would have the effect of dead code eliminating parts of the RTS that were unused, like GC for example.
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2021-07-17 21:16:52 <geekosaur> interesting
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2021-07-17 21:20:33 <dmj`> benefits from WPO are so large even naive pointer analysis (steensgaard) is an enormous win, would still need a fast interpreter though
2021-07-17 21:21:12 <dmj`> thomas johnson created STG, then his final work was GRIN, but it never saw prominence in GHC, I wonder why that is
2021-07-17 21:23:53 <geekosaur> probably because ghc's architecture makes intervening at the stg layer more difficult than it should be
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2021-07-17 21:30:54 <dmj`> exactly, too much code at that point
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2021-07-17 21:35:03 <dmj`> realizing that GRIN's eval inlining is the first step in undoing the overhead of lazy evaluation (while preserving semantics) was pretty mind-blowing
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2021-07-17 23:02:36 <danso> is there a typeclass that generalizes fromMaybe and fromRight?
2021-07-17 23:02:53 <danso> it seems closely related to Alternative, like <|>
2021-07-17 23:03:29 <danso> but (<|>) :: f a -> f a -> f a
2021-07-17 23:03:31 <hpc> :t traverse
2021-07-17 23:03:32 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
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2021-07-17 23:03:41 <danso> i'm looking for f a -> f a -> a
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