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2021-06-16 17:58:52 <dolio> Ariakenom: Maybe he came up with Turing machines first and then tried to show how you could mechanize lambda calculus with them. The papers I was able to find were published in the opposite order of that, though. But I'm not a historian, and it's hard to find papers that old.
2021-06-16 18:00:20 <Zemyla> @let newtype Sorted a = Sorted { runSorted :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] }
2021-06-16 18:00:21 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:00:41 <Ariakenom> some forms of LC seems to have existed for a decade or so before so your story makes sense
2021-06-16 18:00:54 × micro quits (~micro@user/micro) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:01:04 <dminuoso> What I find quite interesting, is how Turing, Gödel, Post, Church and Curry came up with equivalent computational in a very short time period.
2021-06-16 18:01:06 <dolio> Yeah, LC goes back at least to 32, I think. But it wasn't really for computation at that point.
2021-06-16 18:01:22 <dminuoso> (Or rather with models, that later turned out to be computational models that were equivalent in power=
2021-06-16 18:01:23 → micro joins (~micro@user/micro)
2021-06-16 18:02:22 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs, go as [] = as, go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 18:02:23 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: ,
2021-06-16 18:02:35 <tomsmeding> Zemyla: ; not ,
2021-06-16 18:02:47 → dhil joins (~dhil@195.213.192.47)
2021-06-16 18:02:55 <dolio> I think that is probably not that miraculous, either. They were probably communicating, even if by proxies.
2021-06-16 18:03:06 <Ariakenom> "The λ-calculus was invented in about 1928 by Alonzo Church, and was firstpublished in[Church, 1932]."
2021-06-16 18:04:10 <dolio> So there were probably informal ideas that they all were aware of, but came up with their own particulars.
2021-06-16 18:04:38 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 18:04:39 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:05:02 → ddellacosta joins (~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 18:06:09 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b)); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 18:06:09 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: ;
2021-06-16 18:06:21 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorted where { fmap f (Sorted m) = Sorted (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorted m = Sorted (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 18:06:22 <lambdabot> .L.hs:171:17: error:
2021-06-16 18:06:22 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘Sorted’
2021-06-16 18:06:22 <lambdabot> It could refer to
2021-06-16 18:06:30 <Zemyla> @undef
2021-06-16 18:06:31 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2021-06-16 18:06:36 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: But yeah, these are quite simple. Arrow I never really understood, perhaps that's just because I never used any arrow libraries - I hear this used to be a thing for some frp libraries.
2021-06-16 18:07:02 <Zemyla> @let newtype Sorting a = Sorting { runSorting :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] }
2021-06-16 18:07:03 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:07:06 <dminuoso> Other than hxt Im not even aware of any library that exposes its users to arrows.
2021-06-16 18:07:12 <Zemyla> @let mergeWith cmp = let { go [] bs = bs; go as [] = as; go as@(a:as') bs@(b:bs') = if cmp a b == GT then b:go as bs' else a:go as' bs } in go
2021-06-16 18:07:14 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:07:47 <Zemyla> @let instance Functor Sorting where { fmap f (Sorting m) = Sorting (\cmp -> f <$> m (\a b -> cmp (f a) (f b))); a <$ Sorting m = Sorting (\_ -> a <$ m (\_ _ -> EQ)) }
2021-06-16 18:07:48 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:09:23 × edun quits (~edun@user/edun) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:09:38 × ddellacosta quits (~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:09:58 → pretty_dumm_guy joins (trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-06-16 18:10:52 → tremon joins (~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2021-06-16 18:10:57 <Ariakenom> dolio: did you have links to the LC machine paper and TM paper?
2021-06-16 18:11:22 <dolio> No, I looked briefly, but I'm not sure which wikipedia article they were cited on.
2021-06-16 18:11:34 <dolio> It's entirely possible the citations were changed, too.
2021-06-16 18:13:59 → __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-06-16 18:15:04 <dolio> I seem to recall it was after Church's paper on an undecidable problem in number theory, though, so it'd put it around 36 at the earliest.
2021-06-16 18:16:44 → tromp joins (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-16 18:21:07 × azeem quits (~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-16 18:21:38 × danso quits (~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-16 18:22:01 <Zemyla> @let fromSorting (Sorting m) = m compare
2021-06-16 18:22:03 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:22:27 <Zemyla> @let toSorting a = Sorting (const a)
2021-06-16 18:22:28 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:22:50 × slowButPresent quits (~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:23:04 → lavaman joins (~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-16 18:23:18 × Guest9 quits (~Guest9@103.250.139.6) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-16 18:23:32 <Ariakenom> dolio: the TM paper was released 36 tho. I thought you said the order was the opposite
2021-06-16 18:23:39 → danso joins (~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-06-16 18:23:48 × ukari quits (~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 18:24:20 <Zemyla> > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting [5, 1, 4, 2, 3]
2021-06-16 18:24:22 <lambdabot> error:
2021-06-16 18:24:22 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Num [()]) arising from a use of ‘e_151423’
2021-06-16 18:24:22 <lambdabot> • In the expression: e_151423
2021-06-16 18:24:30 <Zemyla> :t toSorting
2021-06-16 18:24:32 <lambdabot> [a] -> Sorting a
2021-06-16 18:24:38 → slowButPresent joins (~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-06-16 18:24:40 <dolio> Ariakenom: Maybe the TM paper I found was not the earliest TM paper.
2021-06-16 18:24:51 <Zemyla> @let toSorting' a = Sorting (const [a])
2021-06-16 18:24:52 <dolio> Or was a republish or something.
2021-06-16 18:24:52 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:25:02 <Zemyla> > fromSorting $ mconcat $ fmap toSorting' [5, 1, 4, 2, 3]
2021-06-16 18:25:04 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5]
2021-06-16 18:25:05 → ukari joins (~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-06-16 18:26:11 × dunkeln quits (~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:27:27 × sbmsr quits (~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:27:53 × lavaman quits (~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:29:06 × tromp quits (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-16 18:29:56 → maroloccio joins (~marolocci@200.243.99.194)
2021-06-16 18:29:59 × slack1256 quits (~slack1256@191.126.99.209) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:30:11 → Morrow joins (~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-06-16 18:30:56 × wonko_ quits (~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-16 18:31:31 → wonko_ joins (~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-06-16 18:32:13 <Zemyla> Is there a reason why tail is partial? Couldn't tail [] = []?
2021-06-16 18:32:41 <Clint> Zemyla: what would its type be then?
2021-06-16 18:32:59 <Clint> nevermind, i misread
2021-06-16 18:33:17 <Zemyla> @let tail' [] = []; tail' (_:as) = as
2021-06-16 18:33:19 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-06-16 18:33:21 <Zemyla> :t tail'
2021-06-16 18:33:22 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a]
2021-06-16 18:33:26 × wroathe quits (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:33:28 × eggplantade quits (~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:cded:c7cb:4d63:a64a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-16 18:36:43 <dolio> Ariakenom: The TM part wasn't my main point anyway. That the history of lambda calculus makes Curry-Howard very unsurprising was the main point.
2021-06-16 18:38:41 → Guest6631 joins (~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-16 18:39:07 → ddellacosta joins (~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-06-16 18:39:29 × wonko_ quits (~wjc@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-16 18:40:12 × maroloccio quits (~marolocci@200.243.99.194) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-16 18:40:29 <crazazy> so i was wondering: is this considered bad practice? https://ttm.sh/FU4.png
2021-06-16 18:41:06 <tomsmeding> Zemyla: I guess the same reason that the 'rm' command-line tool throws an error when you try to remove a non-existent file except silently exiting
2021-06-16 18:41:31 × tromp quits (~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-16 18:41:59 <tomsmeding> and you can always use 'drop 1' instead
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