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2025-10-27 02:19:49 <jackdk> sm: re: "bravo for revising past releases. (I usually don't go that far back)." The thing is, I *had* to, because the lack of upper bounds on `aeson` meant that `cabal` kept selecting older and older releases in the build plan until I revised them all.
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2025-10-27 02:36:47 <haskellbridge> <sm> yes, that's the nature of cabal
2025-10-27 02:37:34 <haskellbridge> <sm> though usually only some other problem constraint causes it to go so far back
2025-10-27 02:38:02 <haskellbridge> <sm> the dynamic solver doesn't think like a human and isn't good at explaining what it's doing
2025-10-27 02:40:07 <jackdk> Because I am very pro-upper-bounds + relaxation, I consider the real problem to be that 25 releases were left lying around waiting to be broken by a dependency that introduced a breaking change, and that the policy encouraged by the behaviour of the stack binary pushes the cost of reacting to that breaking change onto everyone else except the maintainer.
2025-10-27 02:40:35 <jackdk> correction, the policy encouraged by *old templates instantiated by* the stack binary
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2025-10-27 02:47:21 <haskellbridge> <sm> if you are still trying to blame (some part of) stack", I won't stop you. I'll also continue to push back when I see advice that misleads new haskellers
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2025-10-27 02:49:44 <haskellbridge> <sm> this is engineering, people are operating in many different contexts, there are tradeoffs. I appreciate people exploring different approaches (leading to better understanding and consensus over time)
2025-10-27 02:55:37 lol__ is now known as jcarpenter2
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2025-10-27 03:59:19 <hololeap> hi. I have a question about this code: https://bpa.st/3JY2S
2025-10-27 04:00:32 <hololeap> I remember learning at one point that I should be discouraged from putting a constraint inside a data type, but it seems to be working really well here
2025-10-27 04:00:49 <hololeap> it let me make a Foldable type for NonEmptyHashSet
2025-10-27 04:01:27 <hololeap> foldable instance
2025-10-27 04:04:08 <glguy> the main one you were supposed to avoid was on the outside: data Ord a => T a = D
2025-10-27 04:04:21 <Leary> hololeap: Couldn't it be `Foldable` regardless? In fact, you should be able to derive it.
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2025-10-27 04:05:36 <hololeap> Leary: my implentation of toList turns it into a HashSet first, but I could have turned it into a list a different way
2025-10-27 04:05:51 <Leary> It's not inherently bad to put a constraint on a *constructor*, but it's something you ought to have a good reason for.
2025-10-27 04:06:07 <Leary> Since it means carrying the dictionary everywhere.
2025-10-27 04:07:20 <hololeap> everything function in the module had a Hashable constraint before I added the constraint inside the data type
2025-10-27 04:07:25 <hololeap> *every
2025-10-27 04:07:44 <monochrom> I wonder if you actually need it.
2025-10-27 04:07:58 <jackdk> You're also asking for the caller to provide the `Hashable a` constraint while also carrying the same dictionary in the ctor
2025-10-27 04:08:13 <monochrom> Hrm, you need it.
2025-10-27 04:08:33 <hololeap> it carries two types that both assume Hashable: Hashed and HashSet
2025-10-27 04:08:46 <jackdk> You can write the instance a `instance (forall a. Hashable a) => Foldable NonEmptyHashSet` if you turn on
2025-10-27 04:08:51 <jackdk> the necessary extensions
2025-10-27 04:09:04 <hololeap> is that QuantifiedConstraints?

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