Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2021-08-30 05:57:32 | <sim590> | I'm trying to make an instance of this class: http://ix.io/3xoR. Here is my try: http://ix.io/3xoS. It's OK for the part of `dhExchange`, but when writing my implementation of `exponentiate`, I'm getting this error: http://ix.io/3xoU. I'm thinking that there's an issue with how I defined the signature of `exponentiate` (and `dhExchange`) with the constraint of MonadState. How can we explaine the |
| 2021-08-30 05:57:34 | <sim590> | issue? I'm not understanding quite yet. |
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| 2021-08-30 06:41:25 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald: when in doubt, bundle more sources :p |
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| 2021-08-30 06:50:25 | <maerwald[m]> | tomsmeding: the alternative is trying to figure out how to statically link mingw libs |
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| 2021-08-30 06:54:11 | <tomsmeding> | maerwald[m]: doesn't sound like fun |
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| 2021-08-30 07:03:09 | <int-e> | sim590: you may have better luck with a more complete question (including class definition, type for `use` and possibly `generator`; ideally a minimal source file with the necessary imports, declarations (`undefined` as implementation is fine)... it's much easier to figure out type errors interactively than by staring at a static type error. That said, one thing that stands out is this type... |
| 2021-08-30 07:03:15 | <int-e> | ...signature from the error message: exponentiate :: forall z (m :: * -> *). MonadState (DHMaterial z) m => MyDHComputableInteger -> m MyDHComputableInteger ...so it's supposed to work for any `DHMaterial z`, but the code you have only works for `DHMaterial MyDHComputableInteger`... |
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| 2021-08-30 07:08:09 | <tomsmeding> | siers: cool that you understand my gdiff example code now :) I think that "being originally written in Agda" doesn't necessarily produce the GADT weirdness of gdiff; it's the other way round: they wanted to make a completely type-safe implementation, and this is the way that works out in Haskell |
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| 2021-08-30 07:12:33 | <siers> | tomsmeding, right, but my thinking was that if you want to write it in agda, you're probably going to make sure it's type-safe :) |
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| 2021-08-30 07:16:22 | <tomsmeding> | siers: again, knowing the research group that this came out of, I think it was the other way round: they wanted type-safety, and they knew agda, and that worked well together :p |
| 2021-08-30 07:16:31 | <tomsmeding> | but true |
| 2021-08-30 07:16:55 | <siers> | fair enough, you probably know better. I was just speculating |
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| 2021-08-30 07:48:52 | <kuribas> | What do you think about this article? https://cuddly-octo-palm-tree.com/posts/2021-08-29-data-api/ |
| 2021-08-30 07:50:02 | <kuribas> | I think his examples are a bit rubbish (why would I want to check if a line limit is not exceeded?). |
| 2021-08-30 07:50:35 | <kuribas> | But it's true that data centric programming is pretty easy in clojure, but not in haskell (when you want type-safety). |
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| 2021-08-30 07:51:50 | <kuribas> | On the other hand, if I want to parse command line, configuration file, environment variables, etc... from the same source, I'd probably make my own effect. |
| 2021-08-30 07:53:04 | <kuribas> | the ability to inspect all data is convenient, but also breaks abstraction barriers, making code more brittle. |
| 2021-08-30 07:55:35 | <maerwald[m]> | Someone who coded more than half a year in clojure and didn't lose his mind over impossible to find bugs is a mystery to me |
| 2021-08-30 07:57:26 | <kuribas> | maerwald: if you drink the clojure cool-aid for so long, it means you're alread in it. Clojure developers don't care that much. |
| 2021-08-30 07:57:59 | <kuribas> | But it's a good point. You get code conciseness, but the price to pay for lack of safety is that you need a lot of tests. |
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| 2021-08-30 07:58:55 | <maerwald[m]> | Refactoring clojure code is basically a gamble with the life of your company |
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| 2021-08-30 07:59:34 | <maerwald[m]> | Structural typing done wrong |
| 2021-08-30 07:59:42 | <lortabac> | in my experience refactoring simply doesn't happen with dynamically-typed languages |
| 2021-08-30 08:00:07 | <lortabac> | once the project reaches a certain size it somehow becomes "append-only" |
| 2021-08-30 08:00:15 | <maerwald[m]> | I mean, haskell doesn't have any |
| 2021-08-30 08:00:28 | <lortabac> | especially if the original developers are not there anymore |
| 2021-08-30 08:00:38 | <kuribas> | lortabac: we do refactor, but it's painful. |
| 2021-08-30 08:01:17 | <lortabac> | kuribas: wait 5 more years and you will stop refactoring :) |
| 2021-08-30 08:01:29 | <lortabac> | at some point it simply becomes too dangerous |
| 2021-08-30 08:02:38 | <maerwald[m]> | If you cherish clojure, you're probably coding in a bubble with no team and don't understand the horror effects it creates for everyone around you |
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| 2021-08-30 08:03:49 | <kuribas> | maerwald[m]: I asked a new guy about it. His response was, that he doesn't try to understand the code, just run it in the repl and says what it does, which data goes where and how... |
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