Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2021-08-27 18:00:27 | <Cale> | maerwald: They have some good use cases for things like building state machines, FRP, that sort of thing, but the details of how the class is defined and the stuff it leaves out tends to also undermine those use cases quite a bit. |
| 2021-08-27 18:02:15 | <Cale> | It ought to be fixed up so that it fits the definition of a symmetric monoidal category a bit more closely. The extra operations that explicitly reassociate and swap tuples, introduce an eliminate units, actually become quite important, because they let you do some static analysis of your computation to simplify it before running, which is a trick that monads struggle with. |
| 2021-08-27 18:03:36 | <Cale> | Currently, if you use the proc/do syntax, it will shove a black box "arr" in between every pair of arrows in your computation, which destroys any hope of simplifying things. |
| 2021-08-27 18:05:05 | <Cale> | It's possible to get that down to basically just the cases where you have a complex (non-tuple-like) construction on the right of a -< or where you're doing a fancier pattern match on the left of a <- |
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| 2021-08-27 18:06:18 | <Cale> | But that said, even if it were improved to the point that it didn't undermine its best use cases, those use cases are still probably pretty rare :) |
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| 2021-08-27 18:14:25 | <sm> | interesting! |
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| 2021-08-27 18:16:02 | sm | has been missing the Cale insight drops in here |
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| 2021-08-27 18:18:44 | <maerwald> | yeah, I still have to get into FRP as well, but the same thing applies as well: can't find a use case :p |
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| 2021-08-27 18:27:01 | <srid[m]> | web apps |
| 2021-08-27 18:27:19 | <srid[m]> | or cli apps |
| 2021-08-27 18:27:44 | <srid[m]> | https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-ghci for instance |
| 2021-08-27 18:27:53 | <maerwald> | for web apps I don't use haskell |
| 2021-08-27 18:28:10 | <maerwald> | for cli, I use brick, which isn't FRP and much simple |
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| 2021-08-27 18:30:02 | <maerwald> | I think I only tried to get reflex-vty working once and gave up pretty early |
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| 2021-08-27 19:08:41 | <aegon> | cli apps i use ansii-term its simple |
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| 2021-08-27 19:09:17 | <aegon> | web apps i've been using scotty-web |
| 2021-08-27 19:09:25 | <aegon> | srid[m]: ^ |
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| 2021-08-27 19:11:35 | <maerwald> | who's building web apps still, so 90s |
| 2021-08-27 19:12:13 | <maerwald> | have login, a database and customer support |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <aegon> | i assume webapps meant api consumed by something like react |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <maerwald> | after 20 years this nonsense should be abstracted out so hard that you shouldn't know about it anymore |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <maerwald> | but for some reason we haven't managed |
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| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <aegon> | the browser is a crazy land and javascript along with it. blows my mind javascript is the most used language today |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <aegon> | no one thought that through |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <aegon> | :P |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <maerwald> | I don't think js is the problem here, or even languages at all |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:17 | <monochrom> | Blew DIjkstra's mind BASIC was the most learned language, too. |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:35 | <maerwald> | it's the complete lack of *engineering* |
| 2021-08-27 19:14:44 | <monochrom> | Yes I'm now comparing you with Dijkstra. >:) |
| 2021-08-27 19:16:17 | <maerwald> | why can't you build your startup platform web app in 10 clicks via a GUI? I'm pretty sure there's nothing *technically* new about your idea, use case, database constraints etc etc |
| 2021-08-27 19:16:50 | <maerwald> | it has been done a million times and yet we still do it from scratch again |
| 2021-08-27 19:16:54 | <maerwald> | because it pays well? |
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| 2021-08-27 19:17:09 | <aegon> | :O |
| 2021-08-27 19:17:10 | <monochrom> | I think it's called WordPress and FourSquare etc. |
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