Logs: liberachat/#haskell
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| 2021-08-16 14:37:57 | AndrewYu | is now known as \\\ |
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| 2021-08-16 14:38:51 | <tolarz> | (crosspost from ##math) |
| 2021-08-16 14:38:53 | <tolarz> | I read that monads have a "flatten" operation that turns, e.g., `List[List[A]]` into `List[A]`. |
| 2021-08-16 14:38:59 | <tolarz> | But the haskell def. doesn't feature it: https://wiki.haskell.org/All_About_Monads#The_Monad_class |
| 2021-08-16 14:39:01 | <tolarz> | Why? |
| 2021-08-16 14:39:33 | <tolarz> | Are there multiple alternative definitions for monads in the literature? |
| 2021-08-16 14:39:55 | <Rembane_> | :t join |
| 2021-08-16 14:39:56 | <lambdabot> | Monad m => m (m a) -> m a |
| 2021-08-16 14:39:59 | <Rembane_> | There it is. :) |
| 2021-08-16 14:40:06 | <gehmehgeh> | hmmm, I can't seem to find suffiscient info as to how to use cabal with profiling. Whenever I turn it on, it says it can't find any of the dependencies |
| 2021-08-16 14:40:09 | <gehmehgeh> | is this a known problem? |
| 2021-08-16 14:40:17 | <gehmehgeh> | I've googled and found nothing |
| 2021-08-16 14:40:21 | <tolarz> | Rembane_: but why isn't it mentioned in the link? |
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| 2021-08-16 14:41:01 | <Rembane_> | tolarz: Because as it is as you say, there are multiple different definitions of a monad, and the one chosen in Haskell doesn't contain join. |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:11 | <gehmehgeh> | (I've tried "cabal build --enable-profiling", settings ghc-toptions as well as setting "profiling: True" |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:28 | <tolarz> | Rembane_: is there a list of all alternative defsß |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:30 | <tolarz> | ? |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:35 | <tolarz> | i tried searching for one on google |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:37 | <Rembane_> | tolarz: You can define monad using fmap and join, or by using (>=>) and return or by using (>>=) and return. |
| 2021-08-16 14:41:49 | <c_wraith> | gehmehgeh: you need profiling versions of all the dependencies installed. cabal normally takes care of that, but it can't handle wired-in libraries like base |
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| 2021-08-16 14:42:10 | <c_wraith> | gehmehgeh: did you install a broken version of ghc like the one from a package manager? |
| 2021-08-16 14:42:15 | <Rembane_> | tolarz: There are probably more, but I can't think of any right now. But this is a topic I know many in this channel are passionate about so they will probably chime in. :) |
| 2021-08-16 14:42:37 | <gehmehgeh> | ah! "cabal build --enable-library-profiling --enable-profiling" did it |
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| 2021-08-16 14:42:39 | <gehmehgeh> | :D |
| 2021-08-16 14:43:08 | <gehmehgeh> | c_wraith: apparently I had to both set "--enable-library-profiling" AND the reguler --enable-profiling |
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| 2021-08-16 14:43:46 | <c_wraith> | tolarz: please note that Haskell is *not* an especially mathematical language. It does things based on practicality instead of conceptual purity all over the place. |
| 2021-08-16 14:43:53 | <tolarz> | I see. |
| 2021-08-16 14:43:59 | <tolarz> | I am here for conceptual purity though :D |
| 2021-08-16 14:44:01 | <monochrom> | I imagine that our Monad class was defined at a time when redundancy was unwanted. Since >>= is more relevant to programmers, and join derivable, the class included >>= only, leaving join as an outside utility. |
| 2021-08-16 14:44:13 | <tolarz> | What is fmap? |
| 2021-08-16 14:44:20 | <c_wraith> | tolarz: there was an effort to get join into the monad class a few years back, but it failed due to breaking GND. |
| 2021-08-16 14:44:23 | <tolarz> | ah googled |
| 2021-08-16 14:44:34 | <monochrom> | But today you can see that newer classes embrace redundancy, for example Applicative includes both liftA2 and <*>. |
| 2021-08-16 14:45:11 | <c_wraith> | tolarz: and GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving of Monad is used too much to just break for conceptual purity |
| 2021-08-16 14:46:30 | <c_wraith> | (I still think GND should be totally reimplemented to copy implementations instead of share dictionaries, so it can typecheck them separately and not need to be limited by special cases.... but that's a long-running debate) |
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