Logs: liberachat/#haskell
| 2021-08-14 17:40:19 | <maerwald[m]> | And as such the linux kernel doesn't make this distinction on purpose |
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| 2021-08-14 17:47:09 | <monochrom> | I am not impressed with the cottage industry of security either. Since the dawn of programming we already know about for example array index out of bound errors, and we already have a name for that, it's "array index out of bound error", it doesn't need a new name. |
| 2021-08-14 17:48:15 | <maerwald[m]> | You just follow ISO 27k and you're good xD |
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| 2021-08-14 17:48:51 | <maerwald[m]> | It starts with closing server rooms and the like |
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| 2021-08-14 17:49:01 | <maerwald[m]> | Physical access |
| 2021-08-14 17:49:27 | <maerwald[m]> | And then basically stops there |
| 2021-08-14 17:49:29 | <maerwald[m]> | xD |
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| 2021-08-14 17:50:47 | <maerwald[m]> | They needed to introduce security in automotive industry, but the only engineering method (formal methods) would have set the industry back for years if it was enforced by law |
| 2021-08-14 17:50:50 | <maerwald[m]> | So now you just have snake oil |
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| 2021-08-14 17:53:23 | <sm> | re cabal terminology, https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/6105#issuecomment-898934058 |
| 2021-08-14 17:53:33 | <sm> | other ideas ? |
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| 2021-08-14 17:55:32 | <maerwald[m]> | Trash nix style builds and re-introduce sandboxes. They are more reliable, easier to delete and clean up, debug, fix. |
| 2021-08-14 17:56:17 | <maerwald[m]> | Cargo does the same |
| 2021-08-14 17:56:58 | <sm> | no thank you, I don't like rebuilding the world for every new project :) |
| 2021-08-14 17:57:08 | <maerwald[m]> | There are other solutions to this problem |
| 2021-08-14 17:57:40 | <monochrom> | You know what, we can still call it sandboxing. You can't see a denotational difference. |
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| 2021-08-14 17:58:25 | <maerwald[m]> | Yeah, you can use a new store dir for every project |
| 2021-08-14 17:58:35 | <yushyin> | seems like haskell will never have good tooling, what next? re-re-introduce nix-style builds? |
| 2021-08-14 17:59:52 | <maerwald[m]> | sm: i constantly have to rebuild world anyway. Change one ghc flag, update GHC version etc etc |
| 2021-08-14 18:01:36 | <maerwald[m]> | Why do I need to rebuild everything if I update GHC from 8.10.5 to 8.10.6? |
| 2021-08-14 18:01:48 | <maerwald[m]> | No one seems to mind |
| 2021-08-14 18:03:20 | <monochrom> | I mind. But it is a tradeoff. The alternative is hugs or C. |
| 2021-08-14 18:05:16 | <monochrom> | Or rather, the alternatives are Hugs, C, C++, Rust, write my own Haskell compiler. |
| 2021-08-14 18:06:05 | <pavonia> | Hugs \o/ |
| 2021-08-14 18:06:09 | <monochrom> | Thanks you very much, I'll stick to GHC, at least it's my poor laptop, not me, who does the hard work. |
| 2021-08-14 18:06:17 | <maerwald[m]> | HF raised half a million, is that enough to fund you? |
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| 2021-08-14 18:06:33 | <monochrom> | No, I would do a very poor job. |
| 2021-08-14 18:06:34 | <c_wraith> | honestly, that's nothing compared to the cost of a reasonable compiler |
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| 2021-08-14 18:07:00 | <monochrom> | I mean yes! Who doesn't want to scam for half a million dollars? >:) |
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| 2021-08-14 18:08:07 | <monochrom> | BTW if anything is a wage slave in the programming world, it's the poor computers, not any human at all. Programmers are overpriced as is. |
| 2021-08-14 18:08:22 | <maerwald[m]> | Psst |
| 2021-08-14 18:08:47 | <dsal> | Are you suggesting the computers seize the means of production? |
| 2021-08-14 18:08:48 | <maerwald[m]> | They still think it's magic |
| 2021-08-14 18:09:46 | <monochrom> | The computers are always compiling (a thankless job indeed, look at how humans complain about build errors), while humans can have bourgeois fun, https://xkcd.com/303/ |
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| 2021-08-14 18:10:45 | <maerwald[m]> | Are you gonna start the AI revolution? |
| 2021-08-14 18:10:58 | <monochrom> | "exterminate all humans" |
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| 2021-08-14 18:14:13 | <maerwald[m]> | Roger |
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| 2021-08-14 18:20:43 | <sclv> | oh monochrom btw do you have any suggestions on a ux for adding hasdoc-style functionality into cabal directly? |
| 2021-08-14 18:20:52 | <sclv> | feel free to open a ticket for it |
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| 2021-08-14 18:30:29 | <sclv> | monochrom: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/5803 |
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| 2021-08-14 18:45:35 | <hololeap> | lets say I came up with a fancy new Monoid and I want to check to see if it obeys the laws, would agda or idris help me automate this? |
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| 2021-08-14 18:51:02 | <hpc> | agda could, but idris is turing complete |
| 2021-08-14 18:51:20 | <hpc> | although maybe it could tell you enough to be helpful |
| 2021-08-14 18:51:35 | <hpc> | without being a true proof |
| 2021-08-14 18:52:21 | <hpc> | quickcheck might be enough too |
| 2021-08-14 18:52:32 | <hololeap> | I should probably take some time to get familiar with both and understand how proof assistants work in general |
| 2021-08-14 18:53:11 | <hpc> | plus it's good to know anyway |
| 2021-08-14 18:53:54 | <hpc> | the "in general" is pretty simple - types are assertions, and values of those types are their proofs |
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| 2021-08-14 18:54:11 | <hpc> | for an example of why being turing-complete is bad, consider fix |
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| 2021-08-14 18:54:17 | <hpc> | fix :: (a -> a) -> a |
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| 2021-08-14 18:54:39 | <mikko> | i'm having some trouble creating a function that decrements an integer.. i know i could do (\x -> x-1) but i was hoping to do something similar to what you can do with multiplication "(*3) 4" |
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| 2021-08-14 18:54:46 | <hpc> | or, "given a proof that an assertion implies itself, that assertion is true" |
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| 2021-08-14 18:54:54 | <hololeap> | hpc: this is all over my head |
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