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Logs: liberachat/#haskell

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2021-08-04 21:02:17 <lechner> i am more concerned that information some might consider crucial disappeared from the source files
2021-08-04 21:02:27 <yushyin> see the wiki link, there is the thesis, a paper and more
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2021-08-04 21:04:34 <lechner> never mind. his thesis advisor is a friend of mine
2021-08-04 21:04:56 <lechner> i am sure it's super cool stuff
2021-08-04 21:05:05 <monochrom> That's certainly a plot twist no one saw coming.
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2021-08-04 21:07:01 <monochrom> "OO looks nice, you can place data and operations in proximity, nice organizational tool... wait, so Alan Kay was involved?! OK down with OO, burn in hell!"
2021-08-04 21:07:05 <lechner> anyway ema doesn't build directly either, so it's not an issue of vendoring+mixins
2021-08-04 21:08:14 <amesgen[m]> Some use cases of mixins:
2021-08-04 21:08:14 <amesgen[m]> - Multiple dependencies define packages with the same name, and you don't want to use PackageImports all the time
2021-08-04 21:08:14 <amesgen[m]> - Replacing `Prelude` by another module: https://github.com/kowainik/relude#mixins
2021-08-04 21:08:14 <amesgen[m]> - Swapping API-compatible packages, e.g. https://github.com/bodigrim/tasty-bench#how-to-switch
2021-08-04 21:10:44 <lechner> monochrom: well, the more obvious point is that, like many things Haskell, backpack is based on academic work. so many tech ideas are garbage---please forgive a newbie. i see you also had a hand in it
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2021-08-04 21:12:03 brian_da_mage is now known as Neuromancer
2021-08-04 21:12:12 <monochrom> IIUC you have been claiming "newbie" for years.
2021-08-04 21:12:56 <lechner> maybe "student driver" would be better
2021-08-04 21:13:48 <lechner> less honking
2021-08-04 21:15:35 <lechner> plus, i am new to haskell. you can tell from my questions
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2021-08-04 21:22:38 <lechner> actually, i have no issue with mixins. their motivation is brilliant (and outlined in 2.2 of the thesis for anyone interested) but why are they not part of the source files? Doesn't the subtype matter more to the consuming module than to the build process?
2021-08-04 21:23:31 <monochrom> It was a pragmatic choice of "let's not add new syntax to Haskell"
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2021-08-04 21:24:10 <monochrom> You have seen how people are bitter if someone goes "let's add RecordDotSyntax". And that's only one dot.
2021-08-04 21:24:10 <lechner> the baby might have looked like Java
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2021-08-04 21:25:02 <monochrom> I agree that without changing Haskell syntax, you end up with a roundabout bolt-on mechanism, it is not seamless.
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2021-08-04 21:25:33 <lechner> your build systems may also become incompatible, i.e. cabal vs stack
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2021-08-04 21:27:08 <davean> lechner: I mean also the build process though
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2021-08-04 21:27:45 <sclv> no, the problem is just that stack did not update itself to handle mixins
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2021-08-04 21:27:57 <sclv> they could fix it, by updating their code
2021-08-04 21:28:15 <lechner> that's assuming it will do so the same way
2021-08-04 21:28:33 <davean> lechner: a mixin can create a build object for each instance
2021-08-04 21:28:44 <lechner> oxay
2021-08-04 21:28:49 <lechner> okay
2021-08-04 21:29:26 <lechner> you mangle symbol names like C++?
2021-08-04 21:29:29 <sclv> lechner don't make assumptions, you don't understand the implementation well enough to make those assumptions
2021-08-04 21:29:40 <sclv> the core mixin stuff is in the basic Cabal library
2021-08-04 21:29:56 <sclv> stack simply did not yet update their code making use of that library to handle new mixin features in that lib
2021-08-04 21:30:21 <sclv> please do not assume that things are done in ways you can smugly complain are bad, when you have no idea
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2021-08-04 21:31:10 <lechner> you are right. i am a newbie
2021-08-04 21:31:32 <davean> if you know you're a newbie, look into things instead of making assumptions?
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2021-08-04 21:49:16 <janus> if a package uses mixins and it is published to hackage, can a stack build still depend on it? or does stack need every transitive dependency to not use mixins?
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2021-08-04 21:52:01 <raehik> is there any way I can reuse Happy parser components between multiple modules? like the rules (that are processed by Happy)
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2021-08-04 22:04:21 <Guest17> is there a version of Data.Vector.unfoldr (any version) which returns the accumulator/seed after construction, i.e. (Vector a, b) instead of just Vector a?
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2021-08-04 22:57:30 <ski> i guess you're looking for something like `(s -> (Maybe a,s)) -> (s -> (Vector a,s))' (~ `State s (Maybe a) -> State s (Vector a)') ..
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2021-08-04 22:58:55 <ski> (.. reminds me of some `until'/`untilM'/`untilMaybe' looping structures)
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